Shadrach's Ex Battery and Rescued chickens thread.

[Shadrach]

do the ex-batts not bathe at all? ever? (to be said in the same astonished tone as Julie Andrews about not singing, on the lead in to Do Re Mi if memory serves correct and that's the part where it occurs in the Sound of Music!)

I don't know. Thats' what's strange about it. When I'm there they are out and about so I don't see much of their usual behaviour while in the coop run to be certain.
All I can say is I cannot recal ever noticing that one of the Ex Battery hens was taking a bath.
On the other hand I've seen all the Legbars and the crosses and the Light Suxxex Matilda bath and both Volt and Amp when they were alive.

 

[Shadrach]

I hope she doesn't suffer too long and that knowing you allowed her to have a few months tasting "real chicken" life helps seeing her passing away.


Your post and that link raise quite a few questions and gave me food for thought. If we saw, like you say you do, chickens (or other animals for that matter) as children, or let's say as having as much right to consideration for their need than our own children have, then I guess raising them is wrong in itself, that's the antispecist position. But then if we didn't raise and breed them, what would become of them in the world as it is. If any of you have recommandations of articles or books on that subject I'm interested.

Regarding to the link you posted I find the methodology they used very interesting because anyone can use it to evaluate their own setting, whatever it be, and try to make some improvements. I'm definitely going to give it a shot.
Also I think now I'm going to put off trying to raise chicks before I know better .

The secret is, let the hen do it. If she doesn't get it right then maybe next time. Chickens can get it all wrong much like we can.
I'm pretty certain that the art, if there is one, is letting the hen get on with it.
One just needs to provide the right setup long before the hen is thinking about going broody.
I used to keep the maternity units (Two small portable coops with a run) open during the day for hens to lay eggs in and to provide a bit of a refuge. Of course, the hens get used to a nest site being there and make if their main laying site. The nest site in my house was very popular with Tribe 1. Everybody gets used to the sites and of course one can start making judgements on a hens nest site preferences and adjust the site to at least mimic a natural nest.
I rarely removed all the eggs at one time. This meant every coop usually had nests with some eggs in. I can imagine how dispiriting it can be if you are just thinking of adding to the pile you've laid and maybe dreaming about chicks and then someone comes along and steals them all.
In the end (It took about a year to go from incubator to broody with incubator in the rubbish bin)
I left them to it in the end. I used to let them sit for three days if I couldn't cope with more chickens at that time. This ensures the egg laying cycle is fully switched off. Then I would chuck them out, throw the eggs away and destroy the nest. It can take up to three weeks for the hens egg laying cycle to switch back on. This gives her a break at peak laying season; sometimes two breaks.
Some hens get a bit pissy as one would imagine but they would be at it again a few months later.
Ribh could tell you just how delighted she is every time one of her hens goes broody.

 

[Shadrach]

I know Shad will answer for himself, but I think something got lost in translation there. I think he thinks some keepers act like children.

It doesn't matter. I was just having a rant.

 

[Shadrach]

Oh no!! I'm so ashamed !

Your English is better than many native English speakers.

 

[Shadrach]

but if you can't voice an unpopular opinion on Shad's thread, where can you?!

Whatever Shad meant by his use of the word children in his original post (I am bilingual in both English and the US version of English, and it wasn't fully clear to me either), your philosophical contemplations are fully on point.

It is a very complicated topic.

Many of us find the industrialization of poultry distasteful from an animal welfare perspective and from a gastronomic perspective too. That industrialization includes obviously battery hens for eggs, and the entire hatchery business with (at least in the US) live chicks sent by mail.
But we live in the world we live in. Large vertically integrated chicken producers like Tyson or Perdue (in the US) hatch their own chicks who lead miserable lives to be turned into unbelievably cheap meat at scale.
So if hatcheries went out of business it would not impact the large producers and would arguably make the industrialization worse by driving the small farmers out of business.
Shipping chicks is also in part responsible for the saving of endangered breeds of poultry via enthusiasts - which maybe you don't care about because the breeds themselves are an invention of mankind - but does help with genetic diversity.
Arguably too, every chicken raised in a small farm or back yard reduces demand for factory eggs which is, at least in my mind, a good thing. It also helps educate communities and children about where real food comes from. Also a good thing.

So, as I said, it is complicated!

The whole question of rescues is another area fraught with moral dilemma. Does rescuing 'ex-Batts' provide the battery farms a veneer of respectability? Some rescuers pay the battery farms for the chickens in which case they are supporting them financially as well. I also wasn't sure it was kinder to the chickens to rescue them vs ensure they are humanely slaughtered. Watching Shad's impact on his ex-Batts is bringing me round to the view that they can have an acceptable quality end of life phase - but a part of me still thinks that ensuring humane slaughter would have a bigger impact on reducing the awfulness of the whole system.

In my personal journey with chickens I have become even more aware of these issues than I was before and have moved my position a fair bit. I am much more careful where I source my meat - I now buy mainly from local farms who I interrogate directly on their husbandry and slaughter practices. I do feel better knowing my meat is raised in pasture and is humanely slaughtered.

So far I have never got chicks by mail - instead I drive varying distances to collect chicks hatched locally. These tend to be small hatchery businesses or individual enthusiasts. Not being able to keep roosters here that seems like my best choice if I am to keep chickens at all.
Possibly the moral high ground would be for me not to keep chickens at all, but I do feel comfortable that my contributions to supporting industrialized poultry farming are now pretty minimal, and I am too selfish to give up my Princesses who bring me so much joy.

Rant over, and apologies as I have likely upset people on many sides of this debate by my views -

You're right. It is complicated.
I still haven't made my mind up regarding the whole spent hen rescue business. What I am convinced of after the comparatively short observation time is, this lot could not be free ranged. They need either supervision, or containment protection. If this lot produced another generation would say Henry's genes make enough of impact to produce changes in the offsprings behavior?
I would like to be able to find out but I doubt I will.
Meanwhile I'll do what I can for this lot.

 

[Shadrach]

I wonder if they are on the autism spectrum somewhere. I understand "reading" people is difficult for some of them.

Hmmm, I don't think that's the case here. C is just opionated like me.

Yes, sadly she looks like she's at the end. Those that I've lost to old age have always spent their last few days standing off by themselves with that posture even though they would still roost with the flock at night.

The last of my original 12 went a week ago, not bad given she was 3 months shy of 10 years old.

That's a respectable age. How old is your next eldest?

 

[RoyalChick]

You're right. It is complicated.
I still haven't made my mind up regarding the whole spent hen rescue business. What I am convinced of after the comparatively short observation time is, this lot could not be free ranged. They need either supervision, or containment protection. If this lot produced another generation would say Henry's genes make enough of impact to produce changes in the offsprings behavior?
I would like to be able to find out but I doubt I will.
Meanwhile I'll do what I can for this lot.

Yes, you can only do what you can do.
If I had to guess, I would say the next generation would do just fine. I don't think it would only be Henry's genetic contribution, I think it would be their living conditions.
For sure some behavior is learned, but other behaviors are instinctive but may have been suppressed in battery life.
Take the whole dustbathing thing. Diana, is not ex-Batt but is a battery hen breed who has spent her adult life with me. She is a huge dustbather. She digs the biggest holes you could imagine and has a grand old time in them. So it hasn't been bred out of the breed of chicken, it just hasn't been allowed to become a habit in a battery hen. Whereas with Diana it is definitely a habit (more like an obsession really).

 

[Shadrach]

Would have to go back to family farms for that to work. Too many people to feed and too many people needed for modern jobs (that aren't really needed, like fast food) . Have to go back 75 yrs in lifestyle.

I think the large commercial interests will slowly adopt the pasture raised model.
This won't stop the disposal of non peak layers but it will greatly improve the lives they have.
What I would be more interested in is trying to encourage the backyard keeper to move away from emulating the current majority commercial concerns.

 

[Shadrach]

C dislocated the neck of the sick hen this morning. It was the right thing to do I believe. As far as I can tell the hen had the minimum number of days of discomfort during which it became apparent that recovery was very unlikely.
Yup it's sad but this time I think we got most of it right.
This hen came from a battery that got closed down. The battery supplied Tescos with their Happy Eggs brand. The brand is no longer for sale. I believe Tesco were forced to close the battery down.
She lived on the allotment for a couple of months over two years. She would have been less than or about eighteen months old when she was rescued.

 

[Ribh]

Me too.

Ditto.