Shadrach's Ex Battery and Rescued chickens thread.

[Perris]

If we saw, like you say you do, chickens (or other animals for that matter) as children

I know Shad will answer for himself, but I think something got lost in translation there. I think he thinks some keepers act like children.

 

[ManueB]

I know Shad will answer for himself, but I think something got lost in translation there. I think he thinks some keepers act like children.

Oh no!! I'm so ashamed !

 

[Perris]

Oh no!! I'm so ashamed !

You shouldn't be. Your English is MUCH better than my French!

 

[ManueB]

You shouldn't be. Your English is MUCH better than my French!

It wouldn't be so bad if I hadn't spent my breakfast contemplating philosophical questions based on my mistake and sharing them aloud

 

[Ladies-Eight]

Ex Batts good morning one and all!

The temperature is 63 and sunny.

Have a great day!

 

[Sally PB]

I found that link to have some really good info, and will use it to better my chickens' lives. I have a coop and run, no free ranging. Right now with HPAI a threat, this might be a good thing, but that's another topic.

 

[RoyalChick]

It wouldn't be so bad if I hadn't spent my breakfast contemplating philosophical questions based on my mistake and sharing them aloud

Whatever Shad meant by his use of the word children in his original post (I am bilingual in both English and the US version of English, and it wasn't fully clear to me either), your philosophical contemplations are fully on point.

It is a very complicated topic.

Many of us find the industrialization of poultry distasteful from an animal welfare perspective and from a gastronomic perspective too. That industrialization includes obviously battery hens for eggs, and the entire hatchery business with (at least in the US) live chicks sent by mail.
But we live in the world we live in. Large vertically integrated chicken producers like Tyson or Perdue (in the US) hatch their own chicks who lead miserable lives to be turned into unbelievably cheap meat at scale.
So if hatcheries went out of business it would not impact the large producers and would arguably make the industrialization worse by driving the small farmers out of business.
Shipping chicks is also in part responsible for the saving of endangered breeds of poultry via enthusiasts - which maybe you don't care about because the breeds themselves are an invention of mankind - but does help with genetic diversity.
Arguably too, every chicken raised in a small farm or back yard reduces demand for factory eggs which is, at least in my mind, a good thing. It also helps educate communities and children about where real food comes from. Also a good thing.

So, as I said, it is complicated!

The whole question of rescues is another area fraught with moral dilemma. Does rescuing 'ex-Batts' provide the battery farms a veneer of respectability? Some rescuers pay the battery farms for the chickens in which case they are supporting them financially as well. I also wasn't sure it was kinder to the chickens to rescue them vs ensure they are humanely slaughtered. Watching Shad's impact on his ex-Batts is bringing me round to the view that they can have an acceptable quality end of life phase - but a part of me still thinks that ensuring humane slaughter would have a bigger impact on reducing the awfulness of the whole system.

In my personal journey with chickens I have become even more aware of these issues than I was before and have moved my position a fair bit. I am much more careful where I source my meat - I now buy mainly from local farms who I interrogate directly on their husbandry and slaughter practices. I do feel better knowing my meat is raised in pasture and is humanely slaughtered.

So far I have never got chicks by mail - instead I drive varying distances to collect chicks hatched locally. These tend to be small hatchery businesses or individual enthusiasts. Not being able to keep roosters here that seems like my best choice if I am to keep chickens at all.
Possibly the moral high ground would be for me not to keep chickens at all, but I do feel comfortable that my contributions to supporting industrialized poultry farming are now pretty minimal, and I am too selfish to give up my Princesses who bring me so much joy.

Rant over, and apologies as I have likely upset people on many sides of this debate by my views - but if you can't voice an unpopular opinion on Shad's thread, where can you?!

 

[Ladies-Eight]

Whatever Shad meant by his use of the word children in his original post (I am bilingual in both English and the US version of English, and it wasn't fully clear to me either), your philosophical contemplations are fully on point.

It is a very complicated topic.

Many of us find the industrialization of poultry distasteful from an animal welfare perspective and from a gastronomic perspective too. That industrialization includes obviously battery hens for eggs, and the entire hatchery business with (at least in the US) live chicks sent by mail.
But we live in the world we live in. Large vertically integrated chicken producers like Tyson or Perdue (in the US) hatch their own chicks who lead miserable lives to be turned into unbelievably cheap meat at scale.
So if hatcheries went out of business it would not impact the large producers and would arguably make the industrialization worse by driving the small farmers out of business.
Shipping chicks is also in part responsible for the saving of endangered breeds of poultry via enthusiasts - which maybe you don't care about because the breeds themselves are an invention of mankind - but does help with genetic diversity.
Arguably too, every chicken raised in a small farm or back yard reduces demand for factory eggs which is, at least in my mind, a good thing. It also helps educate communities and children about where real food comes from. Also a good thing.

So, as I said, it is complicated!

The whole question of rescues is another area fraught with moral dilemma. Does rescuing 'ex-Batts' provide the battery farms a veneer of respectability? Some rescuers pay the battery farms for the chickens in which case they are supporting them financially as well. I also wasn't sure it was kinder to the chickens to rescue them vs ensure they are humanely slaughtered. Watching Shad's impact on his ex-Batts is bringing me round to the view that they can have an acceptable quality end of life phase - but a part of me still thinks that ensuring humane slaughter would have a bigger impact on reducing the awfulness of the whole system.

In my personal journey with chickens I have become even more aware of these issues than I was before and have moved my position a fair bit. I am much more careful where I source my meat - I now buy mainly from local farms who I interrogate directly on their husbandry and slaughter practices. I do feel better knowing my meat is raised in pasture and is humanely slaughtered.

So far I have never got chicks by mail - instead I drive varying distances to collect chicks hatched locally. These tend to be small hatchery businesses or individual enthusiasts. Not being able to keep roosters here that seems like my best choice if I am to keep

Rant over, and apologies as I have likely upset people on many sides of this debate by my views - but if you can't voice an unpopular opinion on Shad's thread, where can you?!

You are always entitled to express your opinion.

If someone doesn't agree with you they are entitled to express their opinion.

 

[bruceha2000]

C has the ability to rub people up the wrong way at lightning speed and not realise they're doing it.

I wonder if they are on the autism spectrum somewhere. I understand "reading" people is difficult for some of them.

For example C buys bird seed for the chickens.

Wow. I bought some bird seed (because DW wanted me to) for the wild birds that are starting to show up for spring. $33/40 pound (that would be weight, not English money ). The layer feed is $13/50 pound bag.

That's the sick hen on the far left.

Yes, sadly she looks like she's at the end. Those that I've lost to old age have always spent their last few days standing off by themselves with that posture even though they would still roost with the flock at night.

The last of my original 12 went a week ago, not bad given she was 3 months shy of 10 years old.

 

[Iluveggers]

So if hatcheries went out of business it would not impact the large producers and would arguably make the industrialization worse by driving the small farmers out of business.
Shipping chicks is also in part responsible for the saving of endangered breeds of poultry via enthusiasts - which maybe you don't care about because the breeds themselves are an invention of mankind - but does help with genetic diversity.
Arguably too, every chicken raised in a small farm or back yard reduces demand for factory eggs which is, at least in my mind, a good thing. It also helps educate communities and children about where real food comes from. Also a good thing.

Agreed. I got a lot of my info from reading many Joel Saladin books. Although we have a “local” (90 minutes away) hatchery somewhat nearby, they don’t have every breed we were looking for. Many people have no local source for chicks, and what what better way to not support “big chicken” like Tyson or Egglands Best then to have your own egg layers or meat birds.

In my personal journey with chickens I have become even more aware of these issues than I was before and have moved my position a fair bit. I am much more careful where I source my meat - I now buy mainly from local farms who I interrogate directly on their husbandry and slaughter practices. I do feel better knowing my meat is raised in pasture and is humanely slaughtered.

Also same. We pay a bit more, but I like knowing the animals we eat have good lives while they are on the planet. Mothers allowed to nurse with and cuddle their young on pasture (pigs & cows), chickens who live daily under blue sky and on grass.


I think it’s impossible to eliminate the big guys entirely, but we now make a conscious choice to buy animals (and plants and other products) locally from small farms.