Shadrach's Ex Battery and Rescued chickens thread.

[Shadrach]

hi @Shadrach probably not the best plact to ask this but I have a chicken with either a sore or maybe bumble foot.....could i use the hoof tar on the bumble foot or should i do surgery first? In your experience. Thank you so much I love your very thorough knowledge of chickens

I wouldn't use Pine/hoof tar for either. It just doesn't offer enough protection against abrasion.
Thanks.

 

[MrsNorthie]

hi @Shadrach probably not the best plact to ask this but I have a chicken with either a sore or maybe bumble foot.....could i use the hoof tar on the bumble foot or should i do surgery first? In your experience. Thank you so much I love your very thorough knowledge of chickens

I read a post on here (*Edit to be more specific- I read in a post on another BYC forum. ), with some people recommending using Prid drawing salve, at the advice of their vet, so I got some to keep on hand. It worked great on a splinter the egg thief had, it was too deep and too small to get out with the tweezers. I haven't had to deal with bumble foot yet. (*Touchwood)

You can get almost anywhere:

Amazon

Walgreens

Walmart

If we do get a case of bumblefoot, I planned on getting them in with the vet to verify, that it is safe to use on chickens, before I use it, because I am a little paranoid. Maybe someone else (more expert) in this group has experience with this.

 

[MrsNorthie]

Yorkshire Gold is quite good. From the Yorkshire range, I prefer Proper Strong. I'm not sure it's available in the US though.

Tax for tea talk

View attachment 3733018

I like my coffee and tea strong and black.

 

[16 and me]

I like my coffee and tea strong and black.

How many times I have heard the question "How long do you plan on steeping this tea?!" "Til the spoon stands up in it's own" is my usual response.

 

[Shadrach]

Do you have any sensible stats for that expectation? For what it's worth, now into my 7th year of free ranging, the birds that get or are assumed predated here these days (and there are not many) are youngsters, not the older birds. Averages can be very misleading.

No, only my experiences. I agree in general.

Inexperienced birds - which youngsters are by definition - are more likely to get predated than experienced ones, and this is not sufficiently recognized in most studies I've seen. Most experiments I've come across are far too short term, and often incapable by design of giving realistic results. A chick hatched in an incubator and raised by machines in a sterile environment does not behave like a chick raised by a broody free-ranging from hatch.

Completely agree.

Anyone who starts free-ranging experiences losses from predation. Some keepers respond by promptly bringing their birds back into the protection of captivity, and assume that the losses they suffered are typical and that they would continue at that rate until all birds are gone. Many posters on BYC are exemplars of that. I lost my first 6 birds to the foxes within the year.

Yup. Sad but true.

But keepers who persevere, and who analyse the losses - letting the chickens roost in trees was my mistake - and fix the issue(s) identified - make them sleep in the coops in my case, together with some research on foxes and methods of their deterrence - find that, with experience, the birds get better at predator detection and evasion, just as they get better at foraging and other natural behaviours. And they pass this knowledge from experience on to the chicks raised amongst them.

As you know, this is what I did. It's hard going and very few people here on BYC are prepared to take the longer term view. Many of the posters are relatively new to chicken keeping and what they call free ranging may just be a small area in a backyard with inadequate cover and high predator load. Others haven't even thought very much about a long term keeping strategy and others are young and won't be the person responsible for the chickens once the attractions/demands of adult life take up their interest and time.

But...
I had most of the common predators in Catalonia but I had one in particular, the Goshawk that killed very experienced birds, male and female. In fact, the Goshawk was responsible for the majority of the senior birds I lost to predation. This needs to be taken into account. Not all predators are equally dangerous for a number of reasons. The weasel struck a lot but only killed one adult bird to the best of my knowledge. The foxes were dusk to dawn hunters and I didn't lose a single chicken to a fox in daylight hours. I did lose a couple from outside nest while sitting on eggs.
Martens tended to try the jump from tree if out in daylight and the chickens usually saw them and grouped together for defense. Didn't lose a chicken to Martens. I've had a Mink make a try in daylight but it was sick, close to dying and the dogs saw it off.
Falcons, buzzards and the various other hawks were either too small to take down a full sized bird, or in the case of the buzzard, too slow and clumbsy.
Chicks and juveniles before they learnt to keep with the tribe were routinely predated.
When I started we were losing a chicken a month. When I finished ten years later maybe one healthy adult a year. Chicks went from 60% to 30ish percent.
Limiting the number in a clutch helped a lot. Too many chicks, staggered hatches, plus the occasional nutter, were the common reasons for many of the chick losses.

A proper study of the life expectancy of free-range versus confined chickens should compare the data of a long-established multi-generational free ranging flock - not one of identical clones put together ex nihilo for the purpose of the experiment - with those from a variety of confined type flocks. I don't bet, but I'd wager the losses from disease among the latter would outnumber the losses from predation among the former. And there may be some very old birds among the latter, but I'd wager the general health of the flock was better among the former. Further, it might not happen during the experiment, but it does happen in real life, that some flocks in confinement face catastrophic losses when a predator gets into their 'secure' coop. Perhaps an actuary's approach would be appropriate?

I agree, but there are not that many here on BYC with that many years of experience at chicken keeping, let alone free range/ranging chickens with roosters and broody hens to breed in for the loses.

 

[fuzzi]

I like my coffee and tea strong and black.

 

[Shadrach]

Three hours today. Almost warm enough for a cold weather wimp like myself. The chickens definitely looked happier and had a good two hours out on the allotments.

That white spot in the distance is Dig chasing crows. On the plus side he seems to have taken a dislike to rats as well. What happens should he manage to corner or catch one is another matter.

Fret "adjusting" the gap between Carbon and Henry so she can be next to him.

 

[fluffycrow]

Do you have any sensible stats for that expectation? For what it's worth, now into my 7th year of free ranging, the birds that get or are assumed predated here these days (and there are not many) are youngsters, not the older birds. Averages can be very misleading.

Inexperienced birds - which youngsters are by definition - are more likely to get predated than experienced ones, and this is not sufficiently recognized in most studies I've seen. Most experiments I've come across are far too short term, and often incapable by design of giving realistic results. A chick hatched in an incubator and raised by machines in a sterile environment does not behave like a chick raised by a broody free-ranging from hatch.

Anyone who starts free-ranging experiences losses from predation. Some keepers respond by promptly bringing their birds back into the protection of captivity, and assume that the losses they suffered are typical and that they would continue at that rate until all birds are gone. Many posters on BYC are exemplars of that. I lost my first 6 birds to the foxes within the year.

But keepers who persevere, and who analyse the losses - letting the chickens roost in trees was my mistake - and fix the issue(s) identified - make them sleep in the coops in my case, together with some research on foxes and methods of their deterrence - find that, with experience, the birds get better at predator detection and evasion, just as they get better at foraging and other natural behaviours. And they pass this knowledge from experience on to the chicks raised amongst them.

A proper study of the life expectancy of free-range versus confined chickens should compare the data of a long-established multi-generational free ranging flock - not one of identical clones put together ex nihilo for the purpose of the experiment - with those from a variety of confined type flocks. I don't bet, but I'd wager the losses from disease among the latter would outnumber the losses from predation among the former. And there may be some very old birds among the latter, but I'd wager the general health of the flock was better among the former. Further, it might not happen during the experiment, but it does happen in real life, that some flocks in confinement face catastrophic losses when a predator gets into their 'secure' coop. Perhaps an actuary's approach would be appropriate?

I have lost 5 birds from predators while they were confined in their coop and run. 4 were pullets, one was a very old and sick hen. All were brooder raised. The fox was much smarter than me. It found the pullets sleeping close to the wire fence, and due to their inexperience (and my utter stupidity for not moving the bin on which they roosted far from the fence) it tore off the wire with the smaller holes, and pulled their heads and necks out of the wire with larger holes. I have lost 3 birds while free ranging, zero losses for the past 5(?) years. Adolescence is an awkward stage, with disregard to their physical wellbeing. Something that holds true for all species, if I may. Even though the broody raised birds I have free ranging right now did bot free range from day one, they are much more confident in their environment than the others. I cannot wait for the day we have a broody in the main free range flock. My experience doesn't mean much, as my area can be called anything but high predation. We get the occasional hawk, one or two cats, and foxes

 

[Shadrach]

I have lost 5 birds from predators while they were confined in their coop and run. 4 were pullets, one was a very old and sick hen. All were brooder raised. The fox was much smarter than me. It found the pullets sleeping close to the wire fence, and due to their inexperience (and my utter stupidity for not moving the bin on which they roosted far from the fence) it tore off the wire with the smaller holes, and pulled their heads and necks out of the wire with larger holes. I have lost 3 birds while free ranging, zero losses for the past 5(?) years. Adolescence is an awkward stage, with disregard to their physical wellbeing. Something that holds true for all species, if I may. Even though the broody raised birds I have free ranging right now did bot free ranging from day one, they are much more confident in their environment than the others. I cannot wait for the day we have a broody in the main free ranging flock. My experience doesn't mean much, as my area can be called anything but high predation. We get the occasional hawk, one or two cats, and foxes

The message if a predator gets into the coop and run one is likely to lose a lot of birds in one go rather than one at a time when ranging isn't a message most want to hear.

 

[BDutch]

When I started we were losing a chicken a month. When I finished ten years later maybe one healthy adult a year. Chicks went from 60% to 30ish percent.

Interesting what @Perris and @Shadrach say. Not only the above reply but all of it. I agree with most as far as I have experienced. (not so experienced, no roosters, limited free ranging)

Loosing 30% of the chicks is still heartbreaking. I never dared to let my chicks free range with a broody without supervision of a human. Not only the usual predators like foxes, martens and buzzards are a danger for chicks. Also rats, smaller birds of prey and cats who walk around during the day are a danger for banvtam chicks. Next time I have chicks I rather wait to let them free range until the pullets are at least 16 weeks old.

I do agree that free ranging is good for their health. But it comes with a price too.
More of my adult/‘teenage’ chickens died from (suspected) predation than sickness.

Hens /young bantam pullets:
- Sick/ sudden death ii
- Predated ii (buzzard, fox)
- Lost (probably predated) iii

Chicks :
- Sick/sudden death iii (all 6 weeks old chicks I bought)
- Predation ii (rat)
- Lost i