Shadrach's Ex Battery and Rescued chickens thread.

[fluffycrow]

Interesting thought; I have no idea how they would achieve that. Everything I've read so far on thermoregulation is far more basic (or is very directed toward 'improving' the chick that hatches to withstand heatwaves, and not much interested in embryonic development in its own right).

But one rather old paper involving some pretty brutal experiments concluded that there are critical changes around day 7 of incubation (when the embryo begins to have some control over its temperature) and again around hatch (when it begins to cope with cold much better); https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0032579119511671 (open access; paper from 1951). It also suggests (table 2) that a temperature spike (up to 110 F / 43C) around 4 days into incubation doesn't need to last long to be fatal (50% dead in 10 minutes; 30 eggs used in the trial, but only the one trial undertaken, so the stats aren't great).

Thanks once again for the links. I'll have to check on what day of Cruella's brooding we got the temperature extremes. I too, would be surprised if they could manage what I said above, but it would not be the first time these birds leave me at a loss for words, if they could; I also find that I typically throw out a lot of ideas before reaching something of value

 

[Shadrach]

Would you like to frame a suitable experiment for this year's breeding season, to be undertaken by any of us with broodies who might want to participate in a bit of citizen science?

No!

 

[Shadrach]

Glad to hear the cause of your feeling you're firing on half cylinders is you've been out on the town rather than confined to bed @Shadrach !


Yes I've read that and believe it too

Indeed, and I think this is true for most bird species

Agreed. But no-one has looked for it to date I think (so there are no papers about it). Would you like to frame a suitable experiment for this year's breeding season, to be undertaken by any of us with broodies who might want to participate in a bit of citizen science?

Same here.

The Brazilian paper from 2016 you cited has a lot more on the action and functions of turning: here are some highlights

"Egg turning is a natural behavior of birds during incubation, and therefore, this practice was included in the artificial incubation process. Egg turning allows the diffusion of gases inside the eggs and between the eggs and the external environment. It is critical particularly during the first week of incubation, due to the long distance between the embryo and the shell, and to the high albumen density. During this period, the embryo depends on the diffusion of gases through the eggshell and the albumen to obtain O2 and eliminate CO2, because the embryo develops on the yolk surface and gases are exchanged directly by the embryonic cells. ... By days 13-14 of incubation, fetal metabolic heat production increases, and egg turning aids the circulation of air in the inner surface of the egg (external shell membrane) and air chamber, and allows heat loss by conduction, convection, and evaporation. However, egg turning is also important to prevent dehydration and incorrect embryo development (Wilson, 1991). Moreover, egg turning moves nutrients, facilitating their absorption (Brinsea, 2006). Egg turning is not as simple as it may seem. Egg turning frequency, axis of setting, angle, and plane of rotation influence in-ovo development, which may affect hatchability and chick quality (Wilson, 1991). Landauer (1967) demonstrated that chicken hens turned eggs approximately 96 times daily during natural incubation. ... During natural incubation, eggs are often exposed to temperature fluctuations in the nest, which may be caused by environmental temperature variations or changes in the attention hens direct to the eggs. Before the complete development of the chorioallantoic membrane, around day 12 of incubation (Tullett & Deeming, 1987), the embryo responds to the temperature gradient between the egg region in contact with the hen and the part of the egg in contact with the nest material, directing the blood flow to the colder region, regulating its internal temperature (Tzschentke & Nichelmann, 1997). After the complete development of the chorioallantoic membrane, the embryo is able to redistribute heat through its bloodstream (Turner, 1997), which allows regulating its temperature within certain limits. Both the direction of the heat flow and heat distribution through the bloodstream make the embryo less dependent of climate conditions around the egg. This shows that the embryo is able to react to minor temperature fluctuations inside the egg, and that it attempts to regulate its internal temperature within a very narrow range (Tzschentke & Nichelmann, 1997)."

It's a good study. I've read it a few times and posted it here on BYC a few times.
I still find it strange that we are still playing catch up on our knowledge of how chickens be chickens.
I noticed the same when researching the crop article. Even more odd given how important nutrition is when expecting maximum production.
I read the article stuff, some more interesting than others, but I apply old school chicken keeping practices when I can, learnt directly from people.
Watching experienced broodies sit and hatch eventually convinced me they knew what they were doing and I didn't really. I leave it to them as much as I can. The few times I've interfered in the past (putting an egg back under a broody after she had kicked it out, saving chicks mum had abandoned, trying to help a partial hatch when mum had chick had given up) just ended in disaster later on. I don't even bother berating the incubator hatch addicts any more.

 

[Shadrach]

Is it worth bringing female experience into this discussion? I think so. I do agree that nests play a big role in the success of a hatch.

Oh yes, practiced broodies make the whole thing look very casual.

 

[tranquiliti]

Ex Batts good afternoon one and all!

Tea is ready.

Temperature is in the 70s and sunny.

Have a great day!

Tea! That’s what I’ve forgotten for today.

Non-recent guineafowl tax

 

[Molpet]

The few times I've interfered in the past (putting an egg back under a broody after she had kicked it out, saving chicks mum had abandoned, trying to help a partial hatch when mum had chick had given up) just ended in disaster later on.

same here, so much heartache
I don't help the incubator babies either

 

[fluffycrow]

Watching experienced broodies sit and hatch eventually convinced me they knew what they were doing and I didn't really. I leave it to them as much as I can. The few times I've interfered in the past (putting an egg back under a broody after she had kicked it out, saving chicks mum had abandoned, trying to help a partial hatch when mum had chick had given up) just ended in disaster later on

Out of all my hatching experiences this year, this has been my biggest takeaway. I know so little, and the females know so much more; even the inexperienced ones. Letting nature do its thing is hard at times, but we're not the ones that evolved for millenia to forage in small groups in the jungles of South and Southeast Asia, so we should probably let them do what they do best sometimes

 

[Shadrach]

Comment
Reading a few posts this morning I came accross another the chicks are dying after being sent in the post.
I realise it's upsetting for people, but I can't help wondering what people expect.
How can it be a good idea to put day old chicks in a box and put them in the post

. It's just madness.

 

[MaryJanet]

Comment
Reading a few posts this morning I came accross another the chicks are dying after being sent in the post.
I realise it's upsetting for people, but I can't help wondering what people expect.
How can it be a good idea to put day old chicks in a box and put them in the post View attachment 3763312. It's just madness.

It's incomprehensible.

 

[Perris]

I dislike it too, but really, is it much different from the meat we buy in the supermarket which was transported to slaughter in such conditions that many are DOA?

Did this make your news feeds?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-stench-from-19000-cattle-on-live-export-ship

You can find similar horror stories from any part of the so-called developed world. Ignorance rules in most of the food chain.