Shadrach's Ex Battery and Rescued chickens thread.

[kcan2]

There are two clean water supplies close by but these two went for the puddle water.

Good immunities must be lurking in that most refreshing puddle water

Very interesting your rooster findings with your friend. What a smart boy, that rooster! Surely switching to nocturnal egg-snatching will find your friend less seldomly headlessly pinned in the doorway with one hand in the nestbox and a Higher Authority (rooster) inciting him to declare his intentions!

 

[Perris]

What was very surprising to me was the tolerance both Kolovos and his hen had for this behaviour. Any thoughts?

I think they recognize and tolerate his youth and inexperience. I've seen similar with roos and hens here for the cockerels in the fumbling-about-not-sure-what-to-do phase

 

[Perris]

I am seeing signs of SLM for the first time on a few of my chickens. Does any semi-solid fat works or does it have to be vaseline ? I have coconut and neem oil at home but no vaseline.

I've never had to deal with this thankfully, but this is what MSD vet manual has to say about it:
"The scaly leg mite, Knemidocoptes mutans, is a small, spherical, sarcoptic mite that usually tunnels into the tissue under the scales of the legs. It is rare in modern poultry facilities but not uncommon in backyard flocks. When found, it is usually on older birds on which the irritation and exudation cause the legs to become thickened, encrusted, and unsightly. Feet and leg scales become raised, resulting in lameness. Birds stop feeding, and death can result after several months. This mite may occasionally attack the comb and wattles. The entire life cycle is in the skin; transmission is by contact. Infections can be latent for long periods until stress triggers a mite population increase.

For control, affected birds should be culled or isolated, and houses should be cleaned and sprayed frequently, as recommended for the poultry red mite. Individual birds should be treated with oral or topical ivermectin or moxidectin (0.2 mg/kg), 10% sulphur solution, or 0.5% sodium fluoride."

 

[Shadrach]

Here it was sunshine half of the day, and then started raining out of nowhere, my lithops got all wet while they're shedding. Noticed something rather peculiar the other day. Well, peculiar to me. Kolovos's son made a pass at one of the grown hens. The hen squatted, and he got on. Kolovos was momentarily worried, moved literally over them, and just looked. It made his son a little scared but he finished. Then his immaturity showed when he just remained there after finishing, not knowing what to do. What was very surprising to me was the tolerance both Kolovos and his hen had for this behaviour. Any thoughts?

https://academic.oup.com/beheco/article/28/3/760/3057961

 

[Shadrach]

I've never had to deal with this thankfully, but this is what MSD vet manual has to say about it:
"The scaly leg mite, Knemidocoptes mutans, is a small, spherical, sarcoptic mite that usually tunnels into the tissue under the scales of the legs. It is rare in modern poultry facilities but not uncommon in backyard flocks. When found, it is usually on older birds on which the irritation and exudation cause the legs to become thickened, encrusted, and unsightly. Feet and leg scales become raised, resulting in lameness. Birds stop feeding, and death can result after several months. This mite may occasionally attack the comb and wattles. The entire life cycle is in the skin; transmission is by contact. Infections can be latent for long periods until stress triggers a mite population increase.

For control, affected birds should be culled or isolated, and houses should be cleaned and sprayed frequently, as recommended for the poultry red mite. Individual birds should be treated with oral or topical ivermectin or moxidectin (0.2 mg/kg), 10% sulphur solution, or 0.5% sodium fluoride."

What a load of nonsense.

 

[Perris]

What a load of nonsense.

would you like to elaborate for those of us who don't know anything about this?

 

[Shadrach]

would you like to elaborate for those of us who don't know anything about this?

I've dealt with a lot of Scaly Leg Mite. I've been writing about it on this thread recently. Henry has it. He's had it most of his life. His daughter Matilda had it. His daughter Mow has it. None mentioned have dropped dead, or gone off their food.
I had quite a few birds in Catalonia that were susceptible to SLM; none died, ate less or even looked depressed about the problem.
I had birds in Hertfordshire that also seemed to be susceptible to SLM. None went off their food and none died.

All the birds that had SLM lived with roosted with, mated with and bathed with other birds who didn't have SLM. Not once did any of the non SLM birds catch SLM.

It seems from my experiences at least that it is a genetic problem, some birds are susceptible to it while others are not, irrespective of the contact with infected birds.

The advice to isolate and even kill infected birds is just plain ludicrous but many of the medical texts advise isolation for just about any health problem. Isolation from the group is often the worst thing one can do. The bird gets stressed and the stress slows and in some case prevents full recovery.

The same unhelpfull expert advice regarding Ivermectin is trotted out over and over again despite the obvious problem. For Ivermectin to work the mite has to feed on the bird. The bird isn't overly concerned with mites wandering around on their body; it's the mite biting and feeding that's the problem.
Ideally what one wants and what the bird wants is to kill the mite before it feeds. It's why Permethrin is a better solution to mites than Ivermectin; it kills the live mites without the necessity of the mite feeding. Unfortunately niether chemical deals with the eggs so treatment will be ongoing. With Ivermectin and a laying hen, if one takes the withdrawral advice one might not be able to eat the eggs from the treated bird for months.

The fastest way to deal with SLM is to drown them in surgical spirit, rubbing alcohol for the Americans. One needs to keep the legs submerged for a couple of minutes. Anything that can be applied to the legs and feet of the bird that will stay in place and suffocate the mites will work. Most experienced chicken keepers know this. I have used various things but a mixture of iodine which is anti fungal and antiseptic and Vaseline works well provided one gets adequated coverage. The problem is it's all a bit messy and requires lenghty handling of the bird which many keepers are uncomfortable with or unable to do.

The next problem is many keepers do not understand that the scales will not return to normal and because the lifted scales don't return to their normal position they assume the mites haven't been killed. The scales don't return to normal until the bird sheds the old scales and grows in new. Mow is currently growing in new scales on the patches the old scales have either fallen off or been picked off.

Isolation, Ivermectin and killing the bird is just bonkers. Using Ivermectin on a particulary bad case makes sense if a smothering/drowning treatment is used in conjuction.

 

[Perris]

I've dealt with a lot of Scaly Leg Mite. I've been writing about it on this thread recently. Henry has it. He's had it most of his life. His daughter Matilda had it. His daughter Mow has it. None mentioned have dropped dead, or gone off their food.
I had quite a few birds in Catalonia that were susceptible to SLM; none died, ate less or even looked depressed about the problem.
I had birds in Hertfordshire that also seemed to be susceptible to SLM. None went off their food and none died.

All the birds that had SLM lived with roosted with, mated with and bathed with other birds who didn't have SLM. Not once did any of the non SLM birds catch SLM.

It seems from my experiences at least that it is a genetic problem, some birds are susceptible to it while others are not, irrespective of the contact with infected birds.

The advice to isolate and even kill infected birds is just plain ludicrous but many of the medical texts advise isolation for just about any health problem. Isolation from the group is often the worst thing one can do. The bird gets stressed and the stress slows and in some case prevents full recovery.

The same unhelpfull expert advice regarding Ivermectin is trotted out over and over again despite the obvious problem. For Ivermectin to work the mite has to feed on the bird. The bird isn't overly concerned with mites wandering around on their body; it's the mite biting and feeding that's the problem.
Ideally what one wants and what the bird wants is to kill the mite before it feeds. It's why Permethrin is a better solution to mites than Ivermectin; it kills the live mites without the necessity of the mite feeding. Unfortunately niether chemical deals with the eggs so treatment will be ongoing. With Ivermectin and a laying hen, if one takes the withdrawral advice one might not be able to eat the eggs from the treated bird for months.

The fastest way to deal with SLM is to drown them in surgical spirit, rubbing alcohol for the Americans. One needs to keep the legs submerged for a couple of minutes. Anything that can be applied to the legs and feet of the bird that will stay in place and suffocate the mites will work. Most experienced chicken keepers know this. I have used various things but a mixture of iodine which is anti fungal and antiseptic and Vaseline works well provided one gets adequated coverage. The problem is it's all a bit messy and requires lenghty handling of the bird which many keepers are uncomfortable with or unable to do.

The next problem is many keepers do not understand that the scales will not return to normal and because the lifted scales don't return to their normal position they assume the mites haven't been killed. The scales don't return to normal until the bird sheds the old scales and grows in new. Mow is currently growing in new scales on the patches the old scales have either fallen off or been picked off.

Isolation, Ivermectin and killing the bird is just bonkers. Using Ivermectin on a particulary bad case makes sense if a smothering/drowning treatment is used in conjuction.

thanks! that's really informative.

I saw your recent posts on this topic but it's good to have all your knowledge and experience on SLM distilled into one post like this.

 

[Molpet]

The advice to isolate and even kill infected birds

Breeders should be healthiest birds available. ..if birds are livestock, it's common to cull problems so it's not passed on.

 

[fluffycrow]

Very interesting read. Thank you!

https://academic.oup.com/beheco/article/28/3/760/3057961

I think they recognize and tolerate his youth and inexperience. I've seen similar with roos and hens here for the cockerels in the fumbling-about-not-sure-what-to-do phase

I suspect this was also at play. If Kolovos didn't bother throwing him off one of his favourite hens, due to the fact that they're related, then the female (who was just sat there waiting for the son to get off, after he got all awkward) surely recognized his inexperience and remained patient, possibly for similar underlying reasons as Kolovos