Sheep Chat Thread

[ShrekDawg]

Sheep are quite versatile and highly profitable if managed correctly.  We run a a flock of commercial Dorper and White Dorper cross hair sheep, along with a handful of crossbred meat goats, and that's what we do for a living.


There are instances where a sheep or goat would have definite advantages over one or the other, but that is largely dependent upon what your plan is and what kind of land and grazing you will be using.  A range goat's diet will consist of about 50% browse (brush), 25% grass, and 25% weeds if it is all available, where a sheep's diet on the same pasture would consist of about 50% weeds and forbs, 25% grass, and 25% browse.  If you had a really brushy pasture, or woodlands with a lot of undergrowth, then goats would probably be a better fit as far as utilizing the available forage.  If you had a weedy meadow or field, then sheep are probably a better fit.


Good fencing is required for either animal.  Sheep are easier to contain, but need a good fence to help keep predators out.  Healthy, full-sized adult goats (with horns) generally need less predator protection for themselves from coyotes and the like, but a good fence is imperative if you want them to stay on your property where they belong.  If you have predators around though, both animals need good protection during lambing or kidding season since the babies are most vulnerable.  Goats tend to stash their kids somewhere and go off to graze.  If a coyote happens upon a hiding kid goat, he's a handy little sack lunch.  Ewes stay with their babies until weaning time, but a ewe can't always effectively defend her lambs from sharp, hungry teeth and claws.

Temperament wise - they are two very different animals.  Goats are more personable and love to be petted and loved on, but they are not in the least bit friendly towards other small livestock, or even other goats for that matter.  Our sheep and goats are in the same pasture, and we can't pour out sack feed for the sheep if the goats are around.  The goats will hook the ewes with their horns and won't allow them to eat.  The goats will hook each other too, and it seems like someone is always fighting amongst our herd of goats.  Woe be unto any kid goat who runs up under the wrong nanny goat - she will hook him too and dump him on his poor little head.  The sheep are more reserved and standoffish, which a lot of newbies to the sheep business find frustrating.  Sheep are content to stand near you and let you feed them, but they really would rather not be touched.  The ewes are far more forgiving of errant youngsters as well, and a ewe will just walk away from a lamb that isn't hers rather than knocking him in the dirt like a goat would.  The standoffishness is what makes a lot of people think that sheep are harder to handle.  Neither is more difficult than the other, but generally some kind of facilities are required to effectively handle sheep when it is time for routine procedures like vaccinations or deworming.  With a handful of pet goats one can rattle a feed bucket, and then grab whoever they need out of the mob of goats to do whatever needs done.


There are breeds of sheep intended exclusively for dairy production, like the Lacaune and the East Friesian.  Currently the U.S. imports several kinds of sheep's milk cheeses, and the American Sheep Industry Association is trying to raise awareness of sheep dairying to help boost interest and perhaps create more domestic production.  The most popular sheep's milk cheeses in the U.S. are Manchego from Spain, Pecarino-Romano from Italy, and France's Roquefort cheese.  ASI and the Let's Grow Program actually have a webinar coming up in March about sheep dairying:  https://attendee.gotowebinar.com/register/2962937926909717505

One place where I feel like our sheep really outshine the goats is in overall productivity.  Our ewes consistently produce a 145% to 152% lamb crop on range pasture with minimal inputs as far as feed goes.  We don't have to worry about mammying them up because the sheep are better mothers.  The ewes can also grow a lamb to weigh 60 pounds at 60 to 90 days old, which can be shipped at that time right off the ewe.  The average kid goat on range conditions could take 4 or 5 months to reach 50 pounds.  The kid goat's overall rate of gain is quite slow, and even on feed or high quality forage crops isn't superb.  We raise hair sheep, so an accelerated lambing option is there if we choose.  In our accelerated lambing program our bucks are picked up and turned out so that the ewes are lambing every 8 months.  They breed - gestation is 5 months - the lambs are weaned at 2 to 3 months old - and the ewes breed back to do it all again.  Accelerated kidding is not an option in many parts of the country because goats in general are seasonal breeders.  From March 20 to June 21 is the anestrous period for most goats in North America.  I know that statement will hurt a bunch of feelings amongst hobby farm goat owners, but it's the truth.  The bucks don't rut and the nannies don't breed during the anestrous without a whole bunch of jumping through hoops - artificial lighting, hormone treatments, and rain dances and sacrifices to the gods.  There are exceptions to the rule, but they are few and far between. 

You can learn more about the various breeds of sheep here:  http://www.ansi.okstate.edu/breeds/sheep  Though not all the breeds listed are available in the U.S. at this time.

General information about sheep health, management, etc. here:  www.sheep101.info

And about commercial sheep production here:  www.sheepusa.org  This is ASI's website, and will be focused mainly on woollies running on western rangeland.

 

Wow thanks so much for all the info!! It was definitely useful!

Do you think some of the difference and slower growth is because meat goats in general just take longer to fill out than say dairy goats or do you think all goats in general take longer than sheep?

I'm not sure I'll get either any time soon but I hope to eventually. When I eventually move and have an actual farm if I do then it might be more for profit but for now it'd be mostly pets. Is one superior in that area?

And can they be housed together or not?

Because we have almost 3 acres but about half is the yard/grass/lots of weeds in it, and the rest is woods so there's a lot of mixed terrain of grass and scrub and I thought maybe it might be better to get some of each for the different terrains? Or no? And I'm assuming we shouldn't mow it? But would only a few sheep and/or goats be able to keep the yard down or not really?

 

[WallabyOfChaos]

Wow thanks so much for all the info!! It was definitely useful!

Do you think some of the difference and slower growth is because meat goats in general just take longer to fill out than say dairy goats or do you think all goats in general take longer than sheep?

I'm not sure I'll get either any time soon but I hope to eventually. When I eventually move and have an actual farm if I do then it might be more for profit but for now it'd be mostly pets. Is one superior in that area?

And can they be housed together or not?

Because we have almost 3 acres but about half is the yard/grass/lots of weeds in it, and the rest is woods so there's a lot of mixed terrain of grass and scrub and I thought maybe it might be better to get some of each for the different terrains? Or no? And I'm assuming we shouldn't mow it? But would only a few sheep and/or goats be able to keep the yard down or not really?

We don't have straight dairy breed goats because they can't hack it out on pasture where we are, so I can't say anything about their rate of gain, etc. The people I know who do have dairy goats feed the snot out of them, so it's tough to say what kind of feed efficiency they are getting. I believe that the feed efficency and rate of gain on a goat pale in comparisson to that of a lamb. Most meat goats running on larger ranches in the U.S. (primarily Spanish goats here in Texas) are meant to make the most out of land that is relatively useless for other livestock, like cattle. It is often brushy, semi-arid, and rough terrain with sparse "desireable" forage. In short, a goat can make a living where a cow cannot. A slow rate of growth means less demands upon the body when food may be scarce or of poor nutritional value, and that animal can more easily survive and procreate. That is the case too for herds of goats in the more harsh environments in Africa and Asia.

Sheep and goats can be kept together. The only thing to be mindful of is supplements for the two. Sheep don't metabolize copper very well and need a low-copper diet. Goats' copper needs are closer to that of a cow - around 300 ppm - which is 10 times the amount needed to poison a sheep. I am in the Texas panhandle, and I know our soil and forage is going to worlds different than yours up in Massachusetts. Your local county extension office would be a great place to find out what kind of stocking rates you can expect in your area, and if you need to be mindful of any kind of toxic plants and mineral deficiencies, etc. in your soil.

Sheep and goats can coexist easily on the same pasture and their grazing styles actually compliment each other when you are trying to reclaim or repair a pasture. I think if it was my 3 acres, the first thing I would do is build a good perimeter fence to keep my animals in and roaming dogs and predators out. You can cross-fence it easily if needed with electric fences for targeted and/or rotational grazing. For small acreage, a rotational grazing system is definitely your friend. By rotating pastures/paddocks you can better utilize available forage and manage internal parasites more easily. In spite of all that you may read from organic and all-natural producers - no sheep or goat is actually immune to parasites. Good pasture management and occassional deworming will likely be required to maintain a healthy herd.

It just so happens though that you are in luck. The Sheep 101 and 201 sites (http://sheep101.info/201/index.html) are run by the Sheep & Goat Specialist at the University of Maryland Western Maryland Research and Education Center, so a lot of the information there has been gathered from research in that part of the world and most of it is likely to apply to your area. Another good site is the Maryland Small Ruminant Page here: www.sheepandgoat.com
The Small Ruminant Page shines equal focus on goats, where the Sheep 101 and 201 pages are more about sheep.

Both goats and sheep can turn a profit, and there is actually a very large demand in the U.S. for meat from both animals. The USDA really doesn't have a good grip on goat slaughter numbers in the U.S. because so many people of certain ethnicities who own goats simply call their friends and have a big barbecue at weaning time. Kid goats who don't go through the sale aren't accounted for in the weekly head counts and USDA reporting. The USDA does have a good handle on the slaughter numbers for lambs though, and currently the U.S. is importing a significant amount of lamb from other countries - mostly Australia and New Zealand. The USDA report for imported lamb for the week ending January 21 of this year was 1,994 metric tons (4.39 million pounds!!!), which was equal to 169% of domestic production for the same period. In short, we can't currently produce enough goat and lamb in the U.S. to meet domestic demand, which is a pretty awesome place to be from an economic standpoint because literally supply is not meeting demand. Globally, there is a strong demand for American lamb and it is widely considered to be superior to Australian lamb, but we just aren't raising enough of them to even begin to worry about meeting the need in foreign markets. The market reports from San Angelo this past week showed kid goats around $3/lb. and light slaughter lambs at about $2/lb. It's a tough call on which makes more money though since there are so many factors to be considered.

 

[Mdwfolsom]

Can anyone give me advice on wormings for Sheep. I give my Nigerian dwarf goats 1 cc/50 lbs of Ivomec orally, but I'm wondering if I can do the same for the sheep.

 

[WallabyOfChaos]

Can anyone give me advice on wormings for Sheep. I give my Nigerian dwarf goats 1 cc/50 lbs of Ivomec orally, but I'm wondering if I can do the same for the sheep.

You can find the most current information about best practices for deworming sheep and goats here:
https://www.wormx.info/

It is always a good idea to collect a fecal sample to take in to your vet to know what parasites you may be working against, and how effective your current deworming program may be.

 

[itsasmallfarm]

Hello every. Just some quick sheep questions. Thinking about maybe getting a meat lamb (or butcher lamb you know just buy one and butcher it right away not raising one.) But a few questions. What is the percentage of meat you would get from say a 100lb animal.

 

[WallabyOfChaos]

Hello every. Just some quick sheep questions. Thinking about maybe getting a meat lamb (or butcher lamb you know just buy one and butcher it right away not raising one.) But a few questions. What is the percentage of meat you would get from say a 100lb animal.

http://smallfarms.cornell.edu/2012/07/10/yields-and-dressing-percentages/

 

[Chaerie]

I'm so excited to read this thread!!

I'm thinking about getting milk sheep in a year and a half. I was thinking east freisian or mix thereof, for meat and milk. Or maybe a hair sheep and a milk sheep at the same time. Haven't decided. I'm planning on girls only, closed herd, using ai because I do not want to deal with a ram.

We have about 1/2 acre hilly pasture already fenced and another 1-2 acres unfenced that I'd like to use to for rotation, once we get it fenced.

We have a lot of foxtail and dried grass. I know we'll need some quality pasture so we can decrease our feed costs, but I'm wondering how best to improve the grass. It's rocky, hilly ground. Can I just lay down some better seed in the winter? Or is the current grass ok, foxtail included, if I keep it watered? We're on a well so that would be no problem to set up some sprinklers.

Still in planning stages, we're gonna need a shelter built and everything, but I'm thinking about stuff we can start on now to make it easier on myself down the road.

Thanks!!

 

[Nan Lee]

I need some advice.

I am trying to talk hubby into sheep. I want them for meat and I do not want to shear them so I'm thinking hair sheep would be best. I have never owned sheep and do not yet have fencing or shelter prepared (still trying to talk hubby into it).

Since I'm not experienced with sheep, I'd like a breed that is more self-sufficient when it comes to lambing, staying inside a fence, etc. Some of our land is wooded. We have a little over 2 acres in this area.

I considered goats but really prefer sheep. I thought about learning to milk, but I am not sure I want to deal with milking right now. (I work long hours full time, have children, chickens, quail, dogs, fruit trees, blueberries, blackberries, and gardens, so I'm not wanting to add another big job right now.) Oh, and I am in NE Georgia, so we have relatively mild temperatures most of the time.

Preferences:
1. Meat (Dual meat/milk?)
2. Hair (no shear)
3. Self-sufficient (mostly)
4. Will eat brambles, weeds, etc. as well as grass

Any thoughts?
Would I have enough land with 2 acres if I also gave them feed?
What breed would match my preferences?
Any other suggestions?

 

[StinkyAcres]

Reviving this thread! Show off your sheepies you sheep people!
I am down to one sheep now. In case you didn't know, this is Muffin and she is a Katahdin. She is 15 years old and I've had her since she was a year old. She outlived her 5 goat and 2 sheep companions and now lives with the chickens. She is quite demanding of attention from me nowadays, but she's doing okay.

It's currently shedding time for this old sheep!

 

[StinkyAcres]

@Callender Girl @Isadora