should I pull this scab off?

[CoriM]

@Isaac 0 Hi Isaac, can you take a look at the first photo in this post, from my duck Penny, and look at this one I took today, please, if you think you can offer any advice? This has been a long haul for us and I have tried so many things. This is the latest and best her foot has looked. Currently I've been bandaging every day, with the exception of maybe an hour so she can be in the yard and swim. I've been applying a Bumblefoot Tincture which I got from Moonlight Mile Herb Farm. Previous to that I'd been applying iodine. Previous to that I did a lot of things - pulled the scab and attempted to get the infection out, gave her antibiotics, gave her anti-inflammatories, used the DMSO gel, etc. Scab kept reforming (you can see a picture in the middle of the post) as a light brown scab in different places - some places would heal but I could never completely get rid of the scab - it would move around to different parts of the foot pad. When I look at it now it seems to be just about healed up. But you can see the little white parts under the skin in the middle and I'm wondering what that might be. Since she's been making so much progress with the bandaging and tinctue the last couple of weeks, it seems like I should continue on that path. Do you have any thoughts? I've been working on this since September, and we're both ready to be done!

 

[Isaac 0]

Cori, I would suspect the discoloration to be associated with the necrotic tissue previously embedded in the tissue. From my view, the area looks to be healing well; with time, you should be able to see complete epithelial migration over the tissue.

 

[CoriM]

Okay, so do you think I should stay the course with the bandaging until all scabbing is completely gone? She still limps a little and I'm afraid it might be from dealing with this for so long. I also noticed she's getting heavier. I weighed her today and found her to be 11.5 pounds, up 1.5 pounds from a year or so ago. I don't really know how to go about putting her on a diet though alongside all my other hungry ducks.

 

[Isaac 0]

Okay, so do you think I should stay the course with the bandaging until all scabbing is completely gone? She still limps a little and I'm afraid it might be from dealing with this for so long. I also noticed she's getting heavier. I weighed her today and found her to be 11.5 pounds, up 1.5 pounds from a year or so ago. I don't really know how to go about putting her on a diet though alongside all my other hungry ducks.

The tissue appears intact and healed well enough it should be able to repel any bacterial contaminants, so as long as you are able to provide a soft substrate, I would say discontuining with the bandaging would be fine. If it's too hard to provide soft bedding, for the time being, bandaging may be indicated as you would not want excessive weight on freshly healed tissue. As you know, Pekins are heavy birds, and are prone to a variety of leg problems, so it can be especially difficult treating these problems with them.

 

[CoriM]

The tissue appears intact and healed well enough it should be able to repel any bacterial contaminants, so as long as you are able to provide a soft substrate, I would say discontuining with the bandaging would be fine. If it's too hard to provide soft bedding, for the time being, bandaging may be indicated as you would not want excessive weight on freshly healed tissue. As you know, Pekins are heavy birds, and are prone to a variety of leg problems, so it can be especially difficult treating these problems with them.

Right, that's the trouble with her. I do have her on wood shavings most of the time, and I have an extra soft pine shaving right now. I know some feel that wood shavings are part of the problem. Maybe I will keep her bandaged for a couple weeks during the day and take it off at night so the skin can start to toughen up. Thanks so much for your advice!

 

[CoriM]

@Isaac 0 Sorry to bother you again with this, but I just wanted to ask what you think about Penny's scab now 9 days later. It was looking so good and almost healed. I started leaving off her bandage for about 13 hours a day - just keeping it covered from after her morning swim, when I would giver her a quick soak and add some dmso gel and bandage until bedtime. Yesterday I left it off all day. This is what it looks like now, and shows the problem I've been having for several months. The scab starts growing, and then bits will heal under it and fall off and there will be pink skin, but if I neglect the bandage it grows all over again. What would you do if this was your duck?

 

[Ebony Rose]

Next time you soak that foot, use an old, dry terry washcloth to roughly dry that foot/sore spot in the hopes it will yank the scab off. If that doesn't open the wound, then you may need to lance it open. Once opened, and while wearing protective gloves (the stuff inside might be septic), squeeze it gently, but firmly with pressure from under the infection towards the opening that you have created. Poultry pus is thick and cheesy, not the runny mucky stuff us humans have, it's more like blackhead material.
Get all that gunk out, pack the resulting hole with triple antibiotic and fashion a bootie with non-stick gauze & sports wrap tape. Remove bandages daily to inspect, and redress the wound until a proper scab has formed.
Edited to add: I'm mostly concerned about the "yellowish" areas under the scabbing; that's about the color of poultry pus.

 

[CoriM]

@Tycine1 Thanks. I'm not sure if you started at the top of the thread and saw the original bumblefoot scab from last September. It was a black scab and I believe at the time I got the infection out - we did antibiotics and did what you prescribed. But I've never been able to get the scab to go away. If you scroll back a few messages you can see how good it looked just 9 days ago. But I've since been leaving it unbandaged more, and the scab has gotten thicker. She's 11.5 pounds, so her body is rough on her feet in the first place. This duck is also prone to scabs in a weird way that the vet didn't know what it was. She gets odd scabs that grow out of her neck sometimes, or the sides of her legs. It's been like that since started getting her first feathers. They just dry up and fall off, so I don't worry about them, and it probably has nothing to do with this - but it's made me wonder if it's more callous than bumblefoot at this point.

 

[Ebony Rose]

I saw the last two images and the most recent looks *much* worse than a week and a half ago. That, in conjunction with the yellowing at the edges of the scab has me worried that something has gone awry.

Two images ago, the wound seemed deflated, healing; now it appears swollen, red, enlarging, and yellowing under the scab. The scab itself has expanded as well.

It doesn't appear to be healing, it looks to be worsening (again).

 

[CoriM]

I realize it's worsened in the last week. In the photo I posted on Feb. 26th do you believe it's still infected then? I inquired about the white/or yellow tissue below the surface of the skin, and I believe it's the same as what you're referring to around the edges of this scab. I know it's swollen compared to two images ago and that's why I've been applying the dmso gel, and I gave her some ibuprofen this week in hopes that I could bring the swelling down as well. Nothing has changed with her care between the Feb. 26th photo and the one today, except she's getting more time with the bandage off, and I stopped painting the scab with a bumblefoot herbal remedy. This has been my frustration for 5 months now. When I peel the scab off and try to clean and get out any infection, I get a lot of bleeding, but no distinct kernel, and then a new scab forms, which gets hardened when she's allowed to run around without the bandage for any amount of time.