Should I try and kill this bobcat?

[Geena]

Humans are the far superior intellect species on earth.

I'm not so sure about that.

most multiply more predators in 5s and some 3 - 4 times a year.

Predatory animals usually only have one litter a year.

 

[Bigtom Turkey]

Same to you!
I will say one more thing, and that is I think animals absolutely do fear death- and, no, they don't understand the concept the same as we do- but every animal's goal is survival.
But with this, I think we shall have to agree to disagree!

Agreed.

 

[BelovedBirds]

Nobody on this whole thread has in any form suggested they are out hunting down predators away from their property boundaries. This whole discussion is about predators entering our property fencing, coops, runs etc.. and killing what we have taken to protect.

I'm aware. But my argument is largely to do with free ranging.

 

[Geena]

Personally I think it's good that there are folks on both sides of the fence.
In areas where there isn't heavy predation and a fence is all you need to keep your livestock safe, great, let the wildlife be.
In other areas the predator populations can get out of balance due to scarcity of prey or loss of habitat. In that case it's better for everyone if some are culled.
There's no one size fits all in situations like this. One person may only see a raccoon once a year, others might have to contend with dozens of them.

 

[BelovedBirds]

Personally I think it's good that there are folks on both sides of the fence.
In areas where there isn't heavy predation and a fence is all you need to keep your livestock safe, great, let the wildlife be.
In other areas the predator populations can get out of balance due to scarcity of prey or loss of habitat. In that case it's better for everyone if some are culled.
There's no one size fits all in situations like this. One person may only see a raccoon once a year, others might have to contend with dozens of them.

absolutely
I have it easy where I am compared to some of you- birds of prey, foxes, and rats are the main problems, but then again I dont free range and keep everything as secure as possible.
Thats my main issue with this, if my birds were free ranged/not secure then I wouldnt blame wildlife for my losses.
If everything is as secure as possible and predators manage to get in, then I absolutely understand that people have to deal with it

 

[oldhenlikesdogs]

This thread is open again. I wish to remind all that are posting to remember that religious discussions are against BYC rules. Although we allow some religion to be discussed it's best done in the proper threads.

Staff understands that predation, and how to deal with it is a sensitive, and often highly debated topic. Posting in a confrontational way is against the BYC Rules and terms. Please try to be helpful to the topic at hand.

Thank you to all who are participating in a positive manner.

oldhenlikesdogs

 

[BelovedBirds]

This thread is open again. I wish to remind all that are posting to remember that religious discussions are against BYC rules. Although we allow some religion to be discussed it's best done in the proper threads.

Staff understands that predation, and how to deal with it is a sensitive, and often highly debated topic. Posting in a confrontational way is against the BYC Rules and terms. Please try to be helpful to the topic at hand.

Thank you to all who are participating in a positive manner.

oldhenlikesdogs

That's fair! I didn't really realise that was enforced due to other threads I've read, but that makes sense- to stay on topic to the thread.
Thank you for reopening it, I think we all find this conversation somewhat interesting, even if we don't agree on everything

 

[Coops Dad]

Just a comment on coyotes. I used to live in an area of California where there were LOTS of coyotes. We would hear them very night and it was not uncommon to see one running across my pastures. I never lost one animal to a coyote. Not one. Why? Because coyotes are opportunists. If something is more trouble than it is worth they won't bother. I had livestock guardian dogs (Komondors) that regularly patrolled the property. I also had opossums, skunks, and raccoons. Never had any trouble with any of them either for the same reason. Plus, my chicken pen was fairly secure. I did on occasion let my chickens free range, and once in a while I would lose one to a hawk. We had lots of them, too and they didn't care about the dogs.

As for the shepherd, if he had guard dogs for his sheep it is unlikely he would lose the lamb to a predator. Now, I lived in a rural, not an urban, area and there was plenty of natural game for the coyotes and other predators. If an animal attacks you, that is a whole different story.

I lived just north of Corona, CA and had coyotes in my backyard regularly. They killed a 45 lb Sulcata tortoise that had his den on our back patio, they killed our neighbor's cat and two jumped a 6' block wall to kill and carry off another neighbor's mini Dachshund. Packs of dozens of coyotes would come out of the Santa Ana river bottom to prowl through the neighborhood at dusk. They are bold and generally not particularly afraid of humans.

Have you ever seen what coyotes do with dogs? They have one coyote lead the dog farther and farther afield and, when the dog is tired and far from help, the pack appears and tears the dog apart. There aren't many dogs that can hold up against ten or a dozen coyotes baiting it the way hyenas wear down a lion.

The coyotes in my current neighborhood- 15 to 50 acre homesteads out in the county south of Waco, TX- has plenty of fat coyotes used to eating trash, chickens, a neighbor's peafowl, another neighbor's lambs, etc. No coyote will ever work hard to hunt down a young deer when there's a much easier meal waiting behind a layer of plywood or chicken wire.

As long as I'm legally able to, any animal capable of harming me, a family member, a pet or one of our animals will be dispatched as quickly as possible.

 

[The Buffest Orpington]

I didn't expect this thread to spark such a lively and varied discussion, but it's very interesting, so I'm glad it did!

I can see both sides of the issue - hence my extreme hesitation to go after the bobcat, and my failure to do so even in the second year of predation. But I do believe that discussions of morality, as applied to predators, don't really have a place. Predators live solely by killing other animals, day in and day out. Hundreds, perhaps thousands of animals die terrifying, agonizing deaths at the jaws and claws of one single bobcat. If there is any moral code at play, as far as the bobcat, coyote, fox, etc. is concerned, it's only this:

Might makes right.

So because nature has evolved the predator to have the need and ability to kill numerous other animals to live, it has the moral right to do so, regardless of those other animals' desire (right?) to live?

If that's true, then by the same token, those animals that have evolved the ability to kill the predator have the right to do so as well. Might makes right.

Sure, the bobcat needs to eat animals to live. It has a whole forest of squirrels, birds, and other small animals to eat. If it comes to my land, despite the many warnings I've given it by chasing it away and stealing its would-be meals, and it persists in trying to kill my animals, then I have a "right" to kill it. Just the same as it has a "right" to kill whatever it can get its claws into.

For predators like the bobcat and me, might makes right.

 

[Prop toe]

I have a old johnny stewart tape I play in a small player with battery set it near the cut over grown up behind my yard sitting at a table about 209 yards away with a 22 250 you be amazed how many varmits will come to the rabbit in distress tape