Show Off Your American Gamefowl and Chat Thread!!!

[roosterhavoc]

Perhaps some of the seasoned veterans could answer this...  Way back when, were the original strains fought pure?  If so, are battle crosses more common today?  My way of thinking, perhaps misguided, would be testing for performance.  At some point, the pure lines would need to be evaluated, rigorously.

My suspicion is that if molecular genetic mapping techniques were used in gamefowl, as it is in many other species, it would paint a very interesting picture of lineages which may or may not coincide with the written or spoken history of many fowl.

I agree. You'd probably find a little of everything in some lines. Don't care whose great, great, grandaddy had what and linebred them since 1917.

 

[doubleleft]

 
originally posted, 7-24 15 by Dead Rabbit in the  [COLOR=0066CC]BREEDING FOR PRODUCTION...EGGS AND OR MEAT[/COLOR] thread.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/...roduction-eggs-and-or-meat/4620#post_15612986

Hugh Norman a master breeder of game fowl once said, battle fowl aren't brood fowl. And brood fowl aren't battle fowl. .......He never fought his lines of brood stock and never used his battle fowl in the brood pen.


Another words. You keep your brood stock pure and generally tightly inbred to where the genetics aren't greatly diversified. Like produces like. Everything produced comes typical with very little variances.


Then you cross your tightly bred lines to produce your sporting or production lines. The "hybrid vigor" is produced from crossing lines that have proven to be compatible


This method of breeding proves true in most any form of animal husbandry .

Perhaps some of the seasoned veterans could answer this...  Way back when, were the original strains fought pure?  If so, are battle crosses more common today?  My way of thinking, perhaps misguided, would be testing for performance.  At some point, the pure lines would need to be evaluated, rigorously.

My suspicion is that if molecular genetic mapping techniques were used in gamefowl, as it is in many other species, it would paint a very interesting picture of lineages which may or may not coincide with the written or spoken history of many fowl.

The problem generates from the idea 'that there were original strains' , what they had back then was the same situation we have today . Let's go back to first fowl brought over from England and other countries to the USA ..... "they were crosses made into families 'like as we do today" and has been done since the first gamecock came off the boat in the harbors around New York and before .

What the person that's talking about Hugh Norman is saying and trying to tell us is 'the way to success is thru proven line breeding then breeding for the perfect blend and/or hybrid cross' ..... which has been proven true over and over in every animal and plant known to man .

 

[B123]

The problem generates from the idea 'that there were original strains' , what they had back then was the same situation we have today . Let's go back to first fowl brought over from England and other countries to the USA ..... "they were crosses made into families 'like as we do today" and has been done since the first gamecock came off the boat in the harbors around New York and before .

What the person that's talking about Hugh Norman is saying and trying to tell us is 'the way to success is thru proven line breeding then breeding for the perfect blend and/or hybrid cross' ..... which has been proven true over and over in every animal and plant known to man .

I think I understand what you are saying, but will explain it in a slightly different way. Are there "pure" strains? Perhaps it is more individuals develop closely bred families. It is more a matter of finding a good closely bred family that performs well and sticking with it. Is this why breeders keep their brood fowl so long and produce as many as possible out of a relatively small number of fowl? They found something that works and why change it or chance it with something else. Then through trial and error they find another family that crosses well into theirs and make the battle fowl. As long as the underlying genetics do not change much, it all works well.

My guess is this is pretty narrow in it's success in the sense that it works with crossing say a specific family of greys and a specific family of reds?

 

[centrarchid]

The way I look at is strains were setup through periodic crosses followed by combinations of line breeding and inbreeding thereafter. If a strain started to fail, then you could experiment by infusing new blood followed by additional rounds of line breeding and inbreeding to maintain or improve quality. Some strains were lost because infusion of new blood failed or something catastrophic like a flood, fire, bad predator or war took them out. Sometimes loss can occur just by being removed from hands of parties that knew what they were doing.

Some strains were derived from battlecross birds. If you go back in time far enough you will find all games are derived from ancestors that where battle crosses. I state ALL. This has been going on for about 8,000 years which predates New World and European interests in the activity.

In my grandfathers hands, the pure strain broodfowl were not routinely trialed in the pit. That was reserved for when more than enough birds were present to meet needs and some fair method for whittling them down was needed. What was routinely tested in the pit was the crossed offspring of pure brood fowl. Only pure brood fowl that consistently produced quality battle crosses where allowed to continue to do so and to be used to produced new pure brood fowl. Brood fowl and battlecross fowl were treated as separate lines of production even though there was a lot of overlap between the birds used.

 

[roosterhavoc]

Just a few of the many wall hangers from this morning. Lol

 

[sdm111]

Them sac-a-lait is some fine eating there. Wife's favorite fresh water fight and eating fish.

 

[roosterhavoc]

Them sac-a-lait is some fine eating there. Wife's favorite fresh water fight and eating fish.

Yeah they are fun to catch if theyre big enough. Those two weren't bad. Got on the water by 6 am. 48 degrees. Nice change.

 

[sdm111]

Last I noticed 93 and 80% humidity. I managed to clean out the boat and that was about it. Soon though, hopefully

 

[roosterhavoc]

Last I noticed 93 and 80% humidity. I managed to clean out the boat and that was about it. Soon though, hopefully

Felt good to get out fishing the past few days.

 

[sdm111]

Felt good to get out fishing the past few days.

there's hope cold front coming Thursday high only 83