Show off your Delawares! *PIC HEAVY*

[GhostRider65]

I understand the process, but would like all the info I can get involving the 2nd and 3rd generation breeding stock, I know a good Del is a long way off, but I really would like to try to do it myself, then I don't have to take anyone elses word on what actually is in the chickens line , like so many hatcheries and some breeders do. I have seen some That I'm sure are crossed to white rocks and I'm thinking even my girls could be, they have good body, but now no color and at a distance I see a white rock, not a del........... so its very frustrating to get what ya think is one thing that turns out to not be what it is said to be......they do that with Americana's and ee's and that also drives me crazy, though I have seen BR with pea combs, and wrong shapes, or worse...... also so I wonder to myself what actually was used to breed that chicken........ there are so many unscrupulous ppl these days. That I would feel better doing it myself......... as I'm sure Kathy felt the same way, and has some beautiful birds BTW now and she knows what it took to get them this far........I can see this a life time project, but if I have at least as much luck as sense maybe I will get a nice bird to show for my efforts.......Kim

 

[kopeck]

Kathy herself has found that her Del cocks in her new lines are actually too large, per Delaware SOP, at least at this point. It's a tricky business, breeding Delawares.

This to me is interesting. Since the Delaware's roots are in the broiler world you would think (generally) bigger is better. I wonder why the SOP chose the size it did.

I do know that there's more to a good broiler then just size (ie how fast they grow and where that size is placed).

K

 

[catdaddyfro]

This to me is interesting. Since the Delaware's roots are in the broiler world you would think (generally) bigger is better. I wonder why the SOP chose the size it did.

I do know that there's more to a good broiler then just size (ie how fast they grow and where that size is placed).

K

The breeder stock that the original formula/recipe used to make the Delaware were weights by the SOP are 9.5 lbs. for the Barred Rock male and 8.5 lbs. for the female, the NH male is 8.5 and 6.5 for the female. Some of the GSBR males that were used in the project crosses are prolby close to tipping the scales at 10 to 11 pounds and with the addition of heterosis(hybridization)some these F1 males are absolutely gargantous. I'd say 11 to 12 lbs male and 9+ females, at least some of mine are. So you see where this could pose a problem for some but I'd much rather have them a little large than too small as its a lot easier problem to deal with, than trying to get a bird up in size. IMHO and I'm gonna stick to it, LOL

Jeff

 

[speckledhen]

I agree that the hatchery Delawares have been way too skinny for way too long. Sometimes, you have to go the other way for awhile to get back to what you need to be, I guess, Jeff.

Here is my big old man out on range today. He's a chunky fellow, but a tad too long in the leg and too dark in the tail. Great head on him with great hackle color, though, and a temperament that cannot be beat. You can see how broad his chest is in the first picture.

 

[GhostRider65]

Well my hansom is a hatchery bird good color good form, and weighs in at about 10 lbs....... I really think the SOP should be raised in weight because after all the birds are dual purpose, and need a good weight on them at butcher, we did 6 Del roo's from my hansom this last fall along with 6 BR/Del crosses all were huge for there age, 6 to 8 lbs at 16 and 20 weeks...... the larger a bit older. Hansom is a pretty good looking rooster for a hatchery bird, wish my hens were as nice.......... I had great hopes for my 3 hens till 2 molted this fall and now look like WRocks, and I lost my little Bridget, whom I would guess would have been a good size by spring when I picked her up yesterday I think she went 6 1/2 or so, and for a pullet born in May, I didn't think that was too bad.......my now almost white girls are also of good size, 1 I even call wide load she is huge, and both have the pinched tail, and now little if any color............. so disappointed with them.........I knew hatchery stock would leave something to be desired, but come on already they may not be perfect show quality but should actually resemble there breed............... hatcheries have gone too far with there quantity over quality.......... I understand there need to make money, but geshhhhhh already at least keep the good looking good layers, that resemble the true breed bird........I swear from a distance my girls now look like White rocks, I'll posta few pictures tomorrow if it quits raining that is.... can the SOP be changed for a bird? or is it set in stone? seriously I would much rather have a bigger bird than a scrawny thing anyday......

BTW your old man is a nice looking rooster he minds me of hansom alot except Hansom has a better tail I think, he is also quite wide in the chest......... I'll post a picture taken last fall during molt, can't see a tail cuz he lost it but you can see a nice broad chest......

the last photo was of him at 6 or 7 months old........

 

[Mr MKK FARMS]

I agree that the hatchery Delawares have been way too skinny for way too long. Sometimes, you have to go the other way for awhile to get back to what you need to be, I guess, Jeff.

Here is my big old man out on range today. He's a chunky fellow, but a tad too long in the leg and too dark in the tail. Great head on him with great hackle color, though, and a temperament that cannot be beat. You can see how broad his chest is in the first picture.

 

[Lacy Blues]

Well my hansom is a hatchery bird good color good form, and weighs in at about 10 lbs....... I really think the SOP should be raised in weight because after all the birds are dual purpose, and need a good weight on them at butcher, we did 6 Del roo's from my hansom this last fall along with 6 BR/Del crosses all were huge for there age, 6 to 8 lbs at 16 and 20 weeks...... the larger a bit older. Hansom is a pretty good looking rooster for a hatchery bird, wish my hens were as nice.......... I had great hopes for my 3 hens till 2 molted this fall and now look like WRocks, and I lost my little Bridget, whom I would guess would have been a good size by spring when I picked her up yesterday I think she went 6 1/2 or so, and for a pullet born in May, I didn't think that was too bad.......my now almost white girls are also of good size, 1 I even call wide load she is huge, and both have the pinched tail, and now little if any color............. so disappointed with them.........I knew hatchery stock would leave something to be desired, but come on already they may not be perfect show quality but should actually resemble there breed............... hatcheries have gone too far with there quantity over quality.......... I understand there need to make money, but geshhhhhh already at least keep the good looking good layers, that resemble the true breed bird........I swear from a distance my girls now look like White rocks, I'll posta few pictures tomorrow if it quits raining that is.... can the SOP be changed for a bird? or is it set in stone? seriously I would much rather have a bigger bird than a scrawny thing anyday......

The SOP will not be changed.

I'm sure you've heard the expression: "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder." correct? Well, at lot of people, everywhere can point to a breed and say that this particular breed is the most beautiful, the most deserving of preservation, the best dual purpose fowl that ever existed. Right? They can't do all of them with that much attention. So, what you have to do, if you want better birds, is to find them. A lot of the poultry breeders in this country know others who raise various breeds, and if we don't know, we know others who might know and so if you get the word out, perhaps it can come back to you with good news.

 

[GhostRider65]

LacyBlue.......... I surely agree with beauty is in the eye of the beholder, just look at what breeds today's society................LOL I don't think a day goes by that I don't see at least 1 person who should not be in the gene pool...who's lugging around 5 kids........but with animals it is even more true everyone thinks there birds, dogs, horses are the best, its like the ones who ask is that a chicken, some of them haven't a clue what to look for or what they are looking at........... my point being who sets the SOP, do they even know what people expect in there poultry, or want for that matter, it just seems that many breeds have character traits that alot of people would change if they could, but when breeding for the SOP, you must follow someone else's advice about your birds, that in itself seems to be half the problem...and it isn't just in the Delaware breed, somewhere along the line chickens have gotten smaller across the board, the SS are another breed that seems to have a problem getting good size in there birds, its one extreme or another either 2 large for the sop or 2 small, AND THEY ARE EVEN PICKIER ABOUT COLOR!! than our Delawares ..so in breeding for the right color size was lost. among other things .........who keeps the checks and balances for this? how many large birds are culled each year because someone thinks a butchering egg layer should weigh in at 7 lbs? and not 1 lb more, if that birds is perfect in every other way why should it not count as a good breeding stock bird? its a wonder any breeds are even close to the original breed, because somewhere some things have changed, so the set in stone rule only applies to us backyard folk and not the big wigs who show? I guess I'm just a bit confused on how they do it and what standards are used, and when an improvement in the breed can actually be looked at as improvement and changed?...... Hummmmmm something else to ponder I guess. Kim

 

[Lacy Blues]

LacyBlue.......... I surely agree with beauty is in the eye of the beholder, just look at what breeds today's society................LOL I don't think a day goes by that I don't see at least 1 person who should not be in the gene pool...who's lugging around 5 kids........but with animals it is even more true everyone thinks there birds, dogs, horses are the best, its like the ones who ask is that a chicken, some of them haven't a clue what to look for or what they are looking at........... my point being who sets the SOP, do they even know what people expect in there poultry, or want for that matter, it just seems that many breeds have character traits that alot of people would change if they could, but when breeding for the SOP, you must follow someone else's advice about your birds, that in itself seems to be half the problem...and it isn't just in the Delaware breed, somewhere along the line chickens have gotten smaller across the board, the SS are another breed that seems to have a problem getting good size in there birds, its one extreme or another either 2 large for the sop or 2 small, AND THEY ARE EVEN PICKIER ABOUT COLOR!! than our Delawares ..so in breeding for the right color size was lost. among other things .........who keeps the checks and balances for this? how many large birds are culled each year because someone thinks a butchering egg layer should weigh in at 7 lbs? and not 1 lb more, if that birds is perfect in every other way why should it not count as a good breeding stock bird? its a wonder any breeds are even close to the original breed, because somewhere some things have changed, so the set in stone rule only applies to us backyard folk and not the big wigs who show? I guess I'm just a bit confused on how they do it and what standards are used, and when an improvement in the breed can actually be looked at as improvement and changed?...... Hummmmmm something else to ponder I guess. Kim

Have you been to a chicken show? Most of the large fowl birds on exhibit are quite a bit larger than what is called for in the standard. People and judges both like them that way. The other issue with breeding to get a bigger and better bird is that at some point you lose fertility because the bird's legs just cannot support such bulk. They cannot mate successfully. Many of the birds you get from a hatchery are smaller because they just don't pay that much attention to size. They think everybody wants a bird that can pump out 250 eggs a year or more and heck, you can eat it when it peters out so it's dual purpose. I don't feel this way. I would much rather have a healthy bird that can give me 180 eggs a year for several years. My particular chosen breed is an egg laying breed so there isn't a whole heck of a lot of meat on their bodies but I'm working on breeding them up some. But even then, there just won't be a lot of meat as they are "light", "an egg laying breed." I have others for more meat production. I have Delawares for meat production. I have decided that I'm not concerned about color. I want them for food, not to win at a show. However, a correctly bred Delaware is a sight to behold! If you want a larger bird, breed for it. Just remember that there is a top end to that endeavor and hopefully you hang onto some birds that are a little smaller because when you top out and your birds cannot successfully mate, you'll need the slightly smaller ones to continue breeding from. You won't be able to show these monstrous birds. On second thought, you probably will be able to show them as the trend seems to be BIGGER IS BETTER. They don't weigh birds at the shows as there isn't enough time, but you can breed whatever you want. There are no SOP police lurking around the corners of your coops to make sure you do it "right."

 

[speckledhen]

You'll rarely see a Delaware at a show these days, period. Sad, really. And the ones you do see, well, reports are disheartening at best. The ones being shown should match up to some degree, at least.

SOP is fine if that is what you are breeding for. Lacy is right, though. Set your goals and go toward them. SOP doesn't have a police force, though you wouldn't know it sometimes, LOL. If you are breeding for a meat bird Delaware, what their original intent was, prior to Cornish X, then that is what you should go for. Delawares are a huge challenge to get right, with males and females having different tail color, etc. Hard to get both correct, plus size, plus temperament, plus, plus, plus, etc.... I have my personal theories as to why they were nearly extinct and why they are having such a hard time making a comeback, but I'm keeping it to myself.