Show off your Delawares! *PIC HEAVY*

[Cetawin]

Quote:
Jeremy, I am sorry to say that Bill is wrong! Cuckoo is a PATTERN not a color. Just as barred is a pattern, mottled is a pattern. All black feathers will have a sheen of some sort...I would like to see someone try to breed sheen out of black.

The SOP is trying to describe the possible appearance of a bird that became extinct at one point in history and is just now reviving. So as for the SOP is nothing more than guidelines. Medium, short and are interpretive...if not there would be a measurement range such as 4 inch - 5 inch, it does not so therefore it is interpretive. Most hatchery Delawares are nothing more than Columbian Rocks dressed up different. Give the breed time.

But this poking, dissing and BS is at its limit with me. If your birds hatched disfigured, ugly or unsuitable....Cull them and move on like every other breeder trying to strengthen the line/breed.

 

[Cetawin]

Quote:
The SOP are GUIDELINES not law! They are INTERPRETIVE! Where did the info come from on a breed extinct? Were the writer's there to see the breed before it went? Stop the trying to make law out of a best educated guess, you do not have to follow them exactly.

That drawing is a best guess of the person drawing it!

 

[NellaBean]

Yard full o' rocks :

ENABLING MISSION COMPLETE!! Amy (aka HappyMtn) just left here with 9 chicks for her and Janelle (aka Nellabean, sorry if I buggered up the spelling)

They have 4 pure Dels and 5 blue rock/del crosses that they can use to get some add't "pure" dels with a del rooster down the road. Chicks were just a week old and doing well

We'll be looking for regular picture updates ladies!!!!

Whoo! I forgot that this is what she was doing today.......I wondered where she was at....we are swapping this weekend, Big Blue Barred rock boy, blue rock girl, splash rock girl, 2 Salmon Fav hens plus 1 Black Copper Marans hen from me for her and holly.....and half the babies from you plus some other babies from someone else for me. Whoooo babies! hopefully I can get a pair out of the group plus some cute mutts. With Mr Blue Barred Rock leaving, I actually might have space for another "big boy" if the blue wheaten AM boy doesn't step up soon.

Also, good job on the spelling. that is correct!​

 

[countrychickengirl]

Hi everyone!!! I just wanted to drop in and see how everyone is doing and also tell you that I got my first Del egg last Monday at 19 weeks!!! Looks like I am going to have some good layers!!! Here are some recent pics of my girls:

Daisy

Petunia

Henrietta

Bluebelle

These are the best pics I have right now - I went out a little while ago to take them and thought I was going to die - it is at least a million and a half degrees out there!!!

I also have 9 Del chicks in the brooder right now - they are right at 5 weeks old and it looks like I have 2 girls and 7 boys!! They are not looking too good - 3 of them have crooked toe and most of the others have weird combs, so only time will tell. I will try to get some pics of them up soon!!!

 

[tnchickenut]

Quote:
So am I ................

Stacy,
You are talking out of both sides of your mouth. # 1 you want to take your birds to show and win ribbons so you can sell eggs easier; but yet you say the judges are incompetent. ???? So, if you don't win, it would likely be an incompetent judge, right?

If you think most of the best breeders do not have computer access, I believe you are sorely mistaken. Almost everyone has computer access, and use it. Do you think the best breeders just do it to keep them to themselves? Do you consider yourself a breeder (or a backyard hobbyist?)? Where is the line drawn on that? You are not the only person that has to work a job as well as care for their flock. Many people do it.

I had to delete the rest of what I wrote. Enough said.

I have seen names and names of farms and breeders who when you google them have no website. That is how I make that statement. If you think that having a website or being online makes you a good breeder, you are sadly mistaken. And no, I haven't forgotten that I'm online. I don't consider myself the best breeder nor do I consider my Dels the best.

And finally, how is it "talking out both sides of my mouth" if I play with the idea to show and still feel like judges are not poultry gods? The comment came from someone's suggestion to settle this sheen thing by asking a APA judge. I mearly pointed out that they are human and limited in how much true knowledge they have of EVERY breed. That is also not to say that there aren't darn good ones who know more than others... but the comment was to ask "a" judge, not the best.

I guess Salatin is right. Seedstock isn't worth it. Egos tend to get in the way. You have to dress the part and rub elbows and drop names. Too much high school for me.

I think Jeremy's point (at least I know it is also my point) is that Delawares are no longer what they were originally were and we should be working to get them back to their true form. For the record, no one blasted anyone's birds directly nor did anyone claim to have better Dels than anyone else... so forgive me when I can't begin to understand why this all got so personal.

 

[tnchickenut]

Quote:
The SOP are GUIDELINES not law! They are INTERPRETIVE! Where did the info come from on a breed extinct? Were the writer's there to see the breed before it went? Stop the trying to make law out of a best educated guess, you do not have to follow them exactly.

That drawing is a best guess of the person drawing it!

So I can make anything and call it a Delaware? All I have to say is, "That is how I took the SOP."

The SOP picture in my '98 SOP is from 1958 or so. I don't think Dels were extinct then (nor do I now, but just more illusive).

And with that I bow out. I'm too old for this and it has gotten personal and counterproductive. I'll keep breeding my birds the way I see fit. I'm only getting started.

 

[joletabey]

Countrychickengirl- your hens have me drooling- they are beauties! I love Daisy's tail black, it is so beautifully outlined in white (which it supposed to be).Same with Petunia, and Petunia and Henrietta have lovely hackle markings, too. And they all look nice and plump and have great wing set. I would steal your girls in a heartbeat- where do you live???

And your girls are nice and white - mine are filthy from dustbathing constantly- I think I need to show my girls pics of yours! Keep us posted on the babies to come-

 

[Cetawin]

Quote:
The SOP are GUIDELINES not law! They are INTERPRETIVE! Where did the info come from on a breed extinct? Were the writer's there to see the breed before it went? Stop the trying to make law out of a best educated guess, you do not have to follow them exactly.

That drawing is a best guess of the person drawing it!

So I can make anything and call it a Delaware? All I have to say is, "That is how I took the SOP."

The SOP picture in my '98 SOP is from 1958 or so. I don't think Dels were extinct then (nor do I now, but just more illusive).

And with that I bow out. I'll keep breeding my birds the way I see fit. I'm only getting started.

I never said you could use anything to create a Delaware...I let the hatcheries handle that. What I said and asked, which you conveniently overlooked and/or ignored...the SOP is a guideline only. It does its best but it danged sure ain't perfect or right and meant to be a breeders law.

Examples of such stupidity is the fact that any 6th grader can tell you that there are few bird species i this world with a black feather that has no sheen of either green, greenish blue or purple...none of which are poultry. That is the basis of the color black itself and anyone who took ten minutes to learn about color genetics would know this and stop to think about it.

Or Delawares from good stock hatching with 11 or 12 or 13 points..... Funny there have been no pictures of the freak Delaware posted I want to see that myself. why would I want to see it? I have seen speckledhen's flock, in person. One chick a freak....okay maybe but more than one chick and that many points? I submitted the counter needs to try again or post the proof of such a blatant accusation. You claim that Isaac and his girls threw such trash...PROVE IT! Genetics don't work like that.

The SOP came about nearly 20 years AFTER the Delaware disappeared or was so near gone, few true examples of the breed existed. So, you are going on someone's purported memory, knowledge and personal description of a breed.

So, when you want to snipe and get snotty at someone and MAKE IT PERSONAL...especially when you choose to snipe someone who has never done anything but be of assistance, help and generous with people, especially in this thread. ...she does not need to defend herself, her flock or her knowledge....she is must too kind to do so, I on the other hand am not that kind, I am defensive of those I care about. So step off speckledhen's back and show me proof of your "freak" Delaware and prove to me that they came from that NEAR perfect rooster and his girls. Show me written genetic proof that black poultry feathers do not have a sheen and show me the list of which ones do and do not....cause sister the BA, the Del, the Orp, the BR and on and on...have a sheen in their black feathers.

 

[Cetawin]

Countrychickengirl I just love Daisy and Bluebelle. Daisy has the sweetest face to me and reminds me of my Cannonball in that picture.

 

[Wynette]

Goodness, gracious! I'm glad I don't have Dellies in ADDITION to my Marans!

Folks, Cyn asked me to pop in & take an unbiased look at this thread; she truly, from her heart, wanted to know if things were bordering on out of hand, and she knew she was too close to the subject to make that call. I think you ALL ought to give a few seconds of thought to how difficult it is to be a moderator on here. There are thousands upon thousands of threads to watch over, and we are heare to learn, too! It's sometimes difficult for us to take our moderator hats off to engage in thoughtful discussion. Cyn is, IMHO, one of the mods that is best at that - it's a skill, to be sure. Also, for those of you who don't know Cyn, she'd give you the shirt off her back if she didn't even have one. She answer thousands upon thousands of PMs, and maintains personal relationships with many folks on here without it affecting her moderating work. That said, you can likely understand how upsetting it is for me to see you folks being so nasty to each other.

And by "nasty" - I don't mean the conversation about green sheen or no green sheen, asking for outside opinions, sharing your interpretation of the SOP. What I mean is saying things like "you are doing a disservice to the breed" (I counted that phrase more than 5 times) and "Ignornace is bliss" (used in regard to a personal interpretation of the SOP.

I will say that I honestly do feel the conversation has been mostly good and mostly productive. Yes, the SOP most definitely is written with a degree of interpretation. And I am not certain, but I believe each SOP is not written by the same writer...thus, some of the writers may have left out "green sheen" in their descriptions. Most likely, from the research I've done, if the SOP states "solid black" - and does NOT denote "green sheen" that does not mean green sheen should be a disqualifier. In fact, it's up to the judges' interpretations (there's that word again).

I think where the conversation began to get ugly is all the "I have to disagree...." that were written. Folks, it's fine to have an opinion. It's fine to feel strongly about something you are passionate about and truly do believe in. It's NOT fine to beat a darn dead horse! Make your point once. Then, move on. Once you state your opinion, MOVE ON. We all know how you feel. Sure, someone else can bring it up and say hey, let's discuss this some more. But folks, we don't need a diatribe each & every time you post. Again, WE KNOW YOUR OPINION. In the end, folks are going to breed as they see fit. Having 15 pages of "green sheen or no green sheen" is defeating the larger purpose of producing beautiful birds that are bred to the SOP. You know, you can look at 5 different lines of Marans, and each will have its differences. That doesn't mean that some are not breeding to the SOP. Cyn is 100% right in that if they wanted no green sheen, they likely would have stated "without green or purple sheen" - just because it's not there, does not prove or disprove a thing.

I've made a few small edits - again - for the most part, I think your discussion was lively and above board. Stop the name calling ("you are doing a disservice to the breed..." , etc.) and your thread will remain untouched. K?