Sick Chicken...sour crop? worms?? HELP!!

[LovinThisFarmGirlLife]

@rebrascora thank you very much! I’m sorry for being so snappy this morning, I shouldn’t have gotten so defensive. I hope we can still be friends? I have a LOT to learn, and I feel a little guilty that I wasn’t able to recognize that she was ill and help her sooner. I’m also VERY paranoid that all of my chickens have worms now which is something I never realized could be an issue!

I’m going to do everything that I can to keep this hen comfortable and calm while I attempt to nurse her back to health. I have every expectation that she will not survive, but I can’t just give up on her. I really appreciate your input and advice!

I’m glad I at least partially had her breed correct! I’m also relieved she’s not an ISA Brown. I personally refuse to buy one of those because I think it’s awful that they’re bred just for egg laying and that it causes so much distress for them later in life.

If you don’t mind, since I’m now super paranoid about the health of the rest of my flock, can I ask about their butts? I’ve noticed that the vast majority of my hens (I have 17 total and one roo and I would say at least half of the hens) have some amount of poo stuck to their tail feathers. Some are worse than others, none of them smell too terribly bad, but they’re still a mess. Is this ALWAYS an indication of worms or some other problem? I worm my horses on a schedule, I don’t do fecal samples. So if I need to do the chickens I’ll do the same with them. Thoughts? I can get more pics if you want.

 

[rebrascora]

So pleased that you haven't taken lasting offence and we can be friends. I hate to upset anyone and should have been more thoughtful in the wording of my post.

I too used to routinely worm my horses, but I have found a mail order lab service that does worm egg counts, often with next day results, for only £10 each and I have been on a reduced worming strategy for the past 10 years now and often just need to worm once a year for tapes. In fact recently there has been a saliva test developed for tapeworm which is currently twice the price but hopefully that will reduce as more people take it up and I gave that a try last autumn and it was clear. The same lab have also started doing poultry samples in the past few years. I much prefer not pumping chemicals into my animals if they don't need it, so I'm probably not the best person to ask about routine worming of chickens. The fact that there is an egg withdrawal period for most wormers and very few products are licenced for use in poultry, further puts me off.
Poopy butts, in my opinion, are more likely to be due to diet than parasitic load. What do you feed your girls? Have you tried fermenting their feed? I don't buy into the poopy butts or poopy eggs= worms. There is a lot of misinformation out there that is constantly being perpetuated. If it was just the odd bird in the flock that was soiled I would advise to observe for other signs of illness, but if there are a number of birds with the problem they might benefit from a probiotic or fermented feed. Carrying too much fat due to a diet too high in carbohydrate can also cause soiling and also increase risk of other health issues like prolapse and ascites. Fly strike is another risk during the warmer months if their back ends are soiled, so it would be a good idea to tackle it now. It may be that their diet prior to you inheriting them was the cause, but assessing what you are feeding them now is a good idea.

 

[LovinThisFarmGirlLife]

I completely agree about pumping them with unnecessary chemicals. The only reason I was even considering it for my chickens was because I thought NOT worming them might have been what caused my Orpington to get sick. But I’m going to hold off and watch them and monitor their feed and water first. Cleaning their coops and sanitizing ester buckets. I wish we had something like mail stool testing around here that was a decent price...that sounds so convienent! I’ll have to do some research. More research! Lol

I’m happy to hear that you don’t buy into the worm theory. I thought it seemed odd, but as I am still learning, I just figured it was one more thing I was missing. I haven’t fermented their feed because I don’t know how to do it and I don’t want to make them sick. They’re free range all day and in the coop at night to roost. They get an all purpose layer pellet (Ellenbaas brand) daily, as well as a small amount of cracked corn. They have free choice oyster shells as well. Lastly, they get a daily treat of meal worms.

I picked up some probiotics today and planned on adding them to their water. I also took some pics of the chickens rear ends for comparison.

Sadly, our sick girl is no longer with us. I reassessed her this afternoon after I woke up and she was too far gone. I decided that to continue to try to keep her alive was merely just prolonging her suffering. I couldn’t live with that.

So here are some pics of the survivors:

I’m assuming rheee are two more buff Orpington? These are two more who were inherited with the house. Rheyhave nasty butts.
Here’s one of them in the sunlight
This is the backside of one of my pullets. Much cleaner, but still icky.
Here’s most of the flock. The only ones who’s breed I know for sure are the wellsummers and now orpingrons. The lighter colored chickens all have nasty butts and the darker ones all have clean butts

 

[rebrascora]

I'm so sorry to hear that you had to euthanize her but I'm sure it was the right decision. If you are not too squeamish and want to learn from her death, you can cut her open and do an informal necropsy. It is surprising how often you can figure out what was wrong, even without any medical training and if you take photographs there are a few of us that sadly have more experience at it than we might like and there are threads where we share our photos and discuss likely diagnosis. Many heads are better than one with these things.

You have a lovely, colourful flock. I'm not seeing any Welsummers though! I see what appear to be 3 Gold Laced Wyandottes in the front right of the photo with one of 3 black birds which are most likely Australorps and a Silver Laced Wyandotte middle left and probably a Barred Plymouth Rock just below that and possibly a Rhode Island Red or New Hampshire Red in the middle. I'm going to say the cockerel is a Barred Rock too. The other big buff girls are Orpingtons too although I'm wondering if there might be some cross breeding with those dark feathers in the tail.
It appears that it is mostly the bigger girls that have the soiled rears and that might tie in with them carrying too much fat. What percentage protein is your layer pellet and how much is "a small amount of cracked corn"? Heavier breeds are prone to laying down fat and do better with a slightly higher % protein feed like 18-20% whereas layer pellets are usually a basic 16%. Giving cracked corn dilutes that protein level further and those carbohydrates are easily converted to fat. Many people who have a mixed flock with a rooster use an 18 or 20% flock raiser or grower and supply oyster shell on the side for the laying hens to take as needed. That way, the male is not getting an excess amount of calcium in his daily diet that his kidneys have to filter out and the higher protein supports the larger ladies but without being too high to cause problems for the lighter weight ones. It might be worth giving those ladies a trim one night whilst they are roosting since they are not overly keen on being handled which would make washing them "fun". No point in stressing them or you unnecessarily. Grease them up with Petroleum Jelly or Coconut oil to protect and moisturise the skin and prevent further poop sticking. Good luck getting them tidies up.

 

[LovinThisFarmGirlLife]

Thank you. It was a tough call to make, but I ageee that it was the right one. I was tempted to examine her remains, but my husband discarded them before I had a chance . Also, I wasn’t sure what to look for and didn’t want to cut her to pieces for nothing. Maybe the next death we have I’ll be more brave!


Haha omg really? Just when I think I’m starting to figure it out I’m going to post the picture again and tell you my best guess of who’s who. Just for fun .

The rooster is new to the flock. I just picked him up from a lady who had too many and he was getting beat up. I’m about halfway through my bag of feed and when it’s gone I’m absolutelt switching to a flock grower feed and continuing to supply oyster shells. I’m not sure what % protein what I’m using now is, but I’ll make sure to get something that is at least 18%, and probably a littles bit higher, just to offset the corn. “A small amount” is probably too much tbh. Be for us it’s about 16-24oz per day for all 17 birds. We just thow it out like scratch.

6 of the birds are the ones we’ve raised since the fall. They’re all friendly and allow us to handle them. One, a newer girl we adopted a month or so ago allowed me to pick her up tonight and give
Her a trim. My plan is to just pick a couple of birds a day and clean them up until they’re all squeaky clean. So bottom line though, you think it’s that they have too high of a fat content/not enough protein in their food? Should I still add probiotics to their water? I swear I could pick your brain for days with all of the questions I have that were brought to light during my sick chicken research. I fell straight down the rabbit hole!

Thank you for taking the time to educate me about my chickens. I’m impressed with everything you know and I SOO hope to be able to help someone else one day as much as you’ve helped me

Ok here goes:

I thought that #s 5,6,14 were the welsummers. #1 is for sure a silver laced Wyandotte, and #3 Looks like a barred rock, but why is she so dark? The Cockerel is a barred rock. Isn’t he beautiful? I love him . I assumed after our earlier conversation that #s 11 and 7 were buff Orpingtons, and I assumed the black ones were black orpingrons because they’re also quite large compared to some of the other chickens l, well two of them at least, and #2 is probably an Australorp. She’s one of the 6 we raised from chicks. How can you tell them all apart so easily?! Maybe I’m just a bit slow...I have a heck of a fine determining what they all are...aside from the obvious ones.

 

[rebrascora]

5,6 and 14 are definitely not Welsummers. They appear to be Gold Laced Wyandottes but it is not the best angle to ID birds from above. Wyandottes have rose combs and their feathers appear scalloped. All your other chickens will have single combs.... Barred Rocks, Australorps, Buff Orps and RIR are all single combed breeds.
The Barred Rock cockerel has two copies of the barring gene so he has the appearance of being white with grey stripes, whereas the females only get one copy and so they appear more grey with white stripes or bars. It is one of the ways that barred rocks can be sexed.... the cockerels are lighter coloured as juveniles.
Barring is a dominant trait so any offspring you breed from him will all be barred, regardless of which hen you breed him to.

I think you are very wise to tackle the ladies sanitary issues one or two at a time. No point in making the task too daunting.

The opinions I have given in my other posts regarding worming and reasons for dirty butts are just my opinions, so don't take them as fact. Other people will have other ideas. I cannot say that your girls do not have worms.... in fact I would say that almost all chickens will have some worms.... that is to be expected when they scratch and eat in the dirt, but a healthy chicken with a good immune system should be able to keep their parasitic burden to a minimum. It is always worth checking poop for worms whilst you are cleaning the coop under the roost bar and if you can find a lab that does livestock samples, then it is worth sending a combined flock sample off once in a while to put your mind at rest. When I do a necropsy or process surplus cockerels, it is the last thing I check for.... no point in cutting open the gut and getting things messy and smelly until you are finished with everything else.

Must head off to bed now. Hope your ladies don't object too much to having their tush trimmed.

 

[LovinThisFarmGirlLife]

Man, I have so much to learn! I suppose as I get new chicks I’ll pay closer attention to what I’m getting, and I’ll eventusllt learn to tell them all apart .

I understand that these are just your opinions on worming, but until I started panicking about my sick chicken, I was of the same mindset. So I’m actually relieved to hear your opinion because it means I’m not a bad chicken mama, as others have the same opinion as I do and their hens are perfectly healthy. I’m kicking myself now for not checking her for worms. She smelled SO bad though, my husband wanted her gone.

Haha it ought to be “fun” that’s for sure! Thanks again for all of your input. I REALLY appreciate it!!

 

[rebrascora]

To smell that bad, my guess would be that she had a raging infection going on or some major necrosis of her digestive tract. Poor girl. I'm pleased you were able to end her suffering. I know it is not an easy task.
So pleased we got past our early communication wobble .

By the way, I would at least half or probably quarter their cracked corn treat. Those extra carbs are not doing your girls any good. It is like giving candy to children.

 

[Eggcessive]

Sorry for your loss, but glad that she is no longer suffering. My hen with crop issues most likely has other issues cauing her weight loss noted at the beginning.
I have treated her some, now letting her be, but she keeps on traveling with the flock, fighting for bits of egg every afternoon with the others, and although she had a little wing droop and imbalance last week, that has subsided. I have never seen Mareks in my flock for 7 years, and most birds are over 5, so that has not been suspected.
Rebascora has been helpful in identifying yours breeds. I did see a few New Hampshires with red feathers, black tail tips, and straight combs. You can Google many of those breeds to see pictures of what they look like when you have questions.

 

[LovinThisFarmGirlLife]

@rebrascora i think you’re right. She burped once while I was sitting with her and it was like toxic gas. I feel so bad . I’m happy we did too life is tooo short. I had a feeling we were over feeding the cracked corn. Ournfirls are spoiled rotten. Buuuuut just like kids, were not helping them by always giving them what they want! What about the meal worms? Those are protein right? So can they have too many of them?

@Eggcessive im happy your girl seems to be feeling better. I thought about you a lot these past couple of days. I admire your persistence!! If I thought I could bring my girl out of whatever was wrong with her I totally would have. She was just sooo sick. I just couldn’t. Rebrascora had been so helpful!! I feel like I should clarify that I have done ordnof research on my breeds, but so many breeds look similar, and with my very limited knowledge on different breeds, I easily get confused by small things. Like my barred rock hen who is dark. She doesn’t look “Justin like the pictures” I see on google. Plus there’s different coloring so I get them confused with similsrnlooking breeds. But in my profession if I’ve learned anything it’s thst you learn way more sometimes from being wrong than from being right. I’ll get it figured out eventually! With a little bell from my BYC friends, of course