Sick peas

[casportpony]

I agree that Baytril is a very powerful antibiotic and it should be used carefully with the guidance of a veterinarian, but it will *not* make you sick! It was in fact used in the poultry industry for many years before it's ban. Here is the drug withdrawal info:

• http://idosi.org/gv/gv3(5)09/2.pdf

This is why it was banned:
Source: http://pubs.acs.org/cen/news/83/i32/8332baytril.html

FDA Bans Veterinary Drug
Baytril antibiotic, used in chickens and turkeys, causes resistant bacteria to emerge

BETTE HILEMAN


The Food & Drug Administration has banned the use of the antibiotic Baytril in poultry because it causes resistance to emerge in Campylobacter bacteria. Campylobacter in poultry is one of the most common causes of severe bacterial food poisoning in humans.

Agricultural Research Service photo
​

Baytril, a fluoroquinolone known generically as enrofloxacin, is the first veterinary drug to be banned because it leads to the emergence of resistant bacteria. It is chemically similar to the antibiotic Cipro, which is widely prescribed to treat food-borne illness in people. Use of Baytril in poultry, FDA says, reduces the effectiveness of Cipro in treating Campylobacter in humans. Baytril’s manufacturer, Bayer, has 60 days to appeal FDA’s decision.
Most of the Baytril given to chickens and turkeys is used for therapeutic, not growth promotion, purposes. When a respiratory infection shows up in a few birds in a flock, for example, Baytril is commonly given to the entire flock.
“This is a precedent-setting decision,” says Margaret Mellon, director of the Food & Environment Program at the Union of Concerned Scientists. “My expectation is that FDA will follow up by taking steps to cancel some of the nontherapeutic uses of human-use antibiotics in agriculture.”
“We applaud Commissioner [Lester M.] Crawford and the FDA for acting decisively to protect the public’s health,” says David Wallinga, a senior scientist and director of the Antibiotic Resistance Project at the Institute for Agriculture & Trade Policy. “Cipro is an essential antibiotic, and we cannot allow its effectiveness to be compromised by squandering it on poultry.”
“The loss of this product leaves poultry producers without an important tool to treat sick poultry, and it will reduce animal health and welfare while increasing animal death and suffering,” says a statement from the Animal Health Institute, which represents the manufacturers of animal health products.

Chemical & Engineering News
ISSN 0009-2347
Copyright

2005


-Kathy

 

[KsKingBee]

Did you order the Tylan 50 or Tylan 200? Either way, call your vet and ask what dose of Tylan your peas should get. My book says the dose should be one of these:

• 40mg/kg
• 10-40mg/kg 2-3 times a day
• 30mg/kg every 12 hours

-Kathy

Thanks for the info Kathy! We have the 200 on it's way, as I see it you inject less of it at a time and causes less muscle distress if injected IM. SI it would not matter. I will call as you recommend...

 

[KsKingBee]

Check the birds who are gaping by opening the beak and look to see if anything is stuck in the throat.

Am I looking for worms or for food that may be blocking the throat? I thought that Ivermectin was only for deworming?

 

[casportpony]

There is a study that shows ivermectin to be an ineffective wormer for poultry, I'll find that and post it later. If you suspect gapeworms, which I don't think is the problem, according to a study I read, treatment is Safeguard 20mg/kg (.2ml per 2.2 pounds) three days in a row. Again, please consult you vet regarding proper doses.

-Kathy

 

[casportpony]

Am I looking for worms or for food that may be blocking the throat?  I thought that Ivermectin was only for deworming?

Gapeworms live in the trachea, so I doubt you would be able to see them, but checking inside the mouth for pus, odors, mucus, etc is always a good idea.

-Kathy

 

[casportpony]

If you don't have a way to weigh them, let me know how old they are, what sex they are and I'll weigh some of mine and that will help you come up with a proper dosing plan.

-Kathy

 

[Yoda]

Ok Casportpony here is my calculations.

The dosage, according to the Merck Veterinary manual, for tylosin is 35mg/kg. A kg = 2 pounds. So that's 35 mgs of tylosin for every 2 pounds of bird body weight.

Your references say 10 to 40 mg/kg twice daily or 3 times per day. If you're talking respiratory treatment of an acute respiratory infection, 35 is a good dosage. 10 is weak - more a preventative and 40 is too high so always go for the middle.

Tylan200 is 200 mg of tylosin per mL; in other words 200mg for every 1 cc. As 1 cc contains 200 mg, 1 cc contains about 12 pounds weight dosage for a bird. (35 goes into 200 almost 6 times.)

So it's 1cc of Tylosin per 12 pound bird. Average peacock is 9-13.5 lbs I give my adult birds 1.5 - 2cc/ml ONE time not daily and give my young birds.5cc/ml and watch to see if it needs a second dose, usually dosen't but always check.

This medicine should always be given via injection, no matter what friendly advice you're given, because it passes through the digestive system too quickly to be effective orally. (That's what they make the soluble Tylan for - to be used as a sole source of drinking water so that instead of one dose, you get dosages all day long).

It is always best to look down the birds throat when the bird is coughing cause caughing and gaping usually look and sound the same to me. I had one that did it til she finally passed away cause no one could tell what was wrong with her. I did start a thread about her. Yes if it is gape worm you will see it and if it is respiratory infection you will see that as well. It is best to check off what the bird doesn't have to be sure so never tell someone you doubt the bird will have it cause that is when it will. Safeguard liquid does not kill gape worm Ivermectin does. If you have not tried the product then you really shouldn't give advice on it. Search this forum for what everyone uses for worming and how they do it. You will see almost everyone uses Safeguard liquid for goats and then Ivermectin pour on for cattle. And you will not find any complaints that I know of from people here using it. Casport - I know you MISSED me LMAO!

 

[casportpony]

Safeguard *does* treat gapes, and I can post studies that show that, but I cannot find any studies that show ivermectin as an effective wormer, and certainly have not seen it referenced to treating gapes *anywhere* but BYC. No offense intended to anyone here... I know that you and many others here have been doing things a certain way, which is fine, but please, I would love to seen some properly published studies that back these worming claims. when I get back on the computer I will post what I have.

FYI, I used Tylan once, which is why I suggested the OP get a dosing recommendation from the vet. Safeguard and Baytril, those I have used often. You told the OP to give 1cc of Tylan 200, but many young hens weigh less than 3kg, so 1 cc would be too much for them, right? At 40mg/kg a large mature hen would get 160mg, a large mature male would get 240mg, but a small 2013 hen might only need 80mg, this is why one cannot/should not say "just give it X", 'cause all medications, other than the ones you put in water should be given based on weight.

And yes, I did miss you!

-Kathy

 

[KsKingBee]

I am not sure about Yoda's reference to gapeing but I think that the respiratory problem also leads to a sore throat and if the yawning or gasping continues after treatment is over for the respiratory problem that I should be alert for gape worms. Also a sore throat may contribute to getting food caught in the throat and if I see a bird in distress I should probably look down its throat. So far the ones that are yawning are also eating so it is probably just sore throats. I am hoping that Yoda posts back and makes clear what he meant so I don't miss something.

We finished a round of Rooster Booster last week so the chance of worms is very low unless RB does not kill gape worms. I read your post about using paste wormer, thanks for sharing that! Most of our peas are last years hatch, the two adult males are most likely three and four years old. The three adult females are two and three years old. I also have one male that is just turning two years old. The two older cocks and one hen were bought at auction so the age is questionable, the rest were bought from the breeders and we are pretty sure of their ages.

When ordering yesterday I also ordered some safeguard goat wormer to have on hand if needed. I was assuming that the 'large bird' amount would be sufficient, please correct me if I am incorrect.

And thanks again for your help.

 

[KsKingBee]

Opps! two posts came in while I was typing, thanks again and sorry if I started something. I will go back and study both of your responses to make sure I am doing the right thing for our birds. You guys rock!