Sigh - dog issue

Discussion in 'Predators and Pests' started by jjthink, Mar 13, 2011.

  1. ivan3

    ivan3 spurredon

    Jan 27, 2007
    I've had the best luck letting those neighbors, who own dogs, know (as I'm trying to be a good neighbor) that we almost always keep poison/leg holds/snares out on our property for foxes/coyotes; and, `gee, we'd sure hate it if you didn't take that into consideration if you're going to be letting your dogs wander...'

    There really isn't anything they can say (and none have, so far).

    If we weren't in a rural enough area where loose dogs are merely road kill waiting to happen, I'm afraid the perimeter would have to be electrified, otherwise we'd be tied up in civil actions for our being deprived of our right to use and enoy our property.
    If you can video the dogs in your yard, do so. Try to get the dogs to look in your direction and, with the vid still running, turn away and run screaming `don't bite me! don't bite me!'. Call the cops and show them the video... The owner's vicious proxy agents of trespass and destruction! Let the state take them off to be put down...

    Best of luck!
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2011
  2. TNBarnQueen

    TNBarnQueen Songster

    Oct 28, 2010
    East Tennessee
    I have had this same problem for 15 years. My neighbor keeps a minimum 7 dogs which I roam and it only take 3 dogs to make a pack. When this instinct kicks in...well..little can one do most times. I lost 8 baby goats one spring. We have our property fenced and they still dig under the fence. Electric?? Some dogs are smart enough to realize that if they can hit it quick enough the "bite" is minimal. This chicken already gone....3 cats with serious bites and one cat disappeared. The animal control has taken their dogs and levied fines 3 or 4 times. In order to have that done I had to have hard proof. It took a couple weeks but I finally got a pic of their dogs running my goats so I would suggest keeping a camera in your pocket when outside. It is also a law here that dogs be confined to their owners property. Funny thing is our neighbors has a fully fenced yard but when I asked why they would not close the gates I was told it was too much trouble to get in and out of a car to open or close a gate. [​IMG]

    Anyways...we have a new animal control officer now and here in TN they now work in conjunction with the Sheriffs dept. The new one is very strict and when I ask him to come out he told us if we find their dogs on our property,..shoot them. Let me make it clear I love dogs and do not like to harm one but...I love my animals more. The talk the officer had with the neighbors worked for maybe 2 weeks. Now we are back to square one for the millionith time. [​IMG]

    So...we have made the decision to get a Great Pyrenees. They are stock protectors and I know for a fact will not tolerate other dogs or any stranger on their property. We will however have to install an underground fence. I would suggest your giving thought to this as well. It will take care of many problems in one solution. Anatolian Shepards are also excellent stock dogs. Keep in mind with these dogs there relationship has to be with their animals first...humans second. In order for them to do their job effectively it is best to NOT make them into a pet dog like you would a regular dog. We have had one before and they are great. We are getting ours from a rescue and they carefully screen them to make sure they do what they are suppose to do.
    So..I am just talking from many years experience...after a while you just get tired of banging your head. [​IMG] AND..if you get one from a rescue like us you are giving an unwanted dog a good home.[​IMG]

    Hope this helps and good luck.
  3. drumstick diva

    drumstick diva Still crazy after all these years.

    Aug 26, 2009
    Out to pasture
    Your response to them should be along the lines of "My chickens mean as much to me as your dogs do to you. I'm sure we would both be horrified if something happened to either of our pets. " If they don't understand that maybe they need to be told you promise your chickens will never run into their yard and kill their dogs and you expect the same from them. Can't we just give them a good hit in the head to knock some sense into them. Maybe cell phones & other techno toys have obliverated (is that a word?) too many brains.
  4. drumstick diva

    drumstick diva Still crazy after all these years.

    Aug 26, 2009
    Out to pasture
    Sorry for the strong language - but, I've read enough stories like yours - I would like to see them handcuffed to their dogs, so they know what really happens and have to witness it.
  5. Mattemma

    Mattemma Crowing

    Aug 12, 2009
    I would do the chicken tractor or a mini fenced in area around the sun bathing area. If that does not work out I would seriously consider moving.The taxes and flooding alone would make me want to move. Why live in an area where you really can not enjoy life?
  6. packmomma

    packmomma Songster

    Mar 10, 2009
    Argos, IN
    Sometimes its like talking to a brick wall. I had a friend who doesnt want to tie up her dog, thinks its cruel, lets it roam the neighborhood, and at least 4 different times has brought home chickens. I told her she needs to tie it up or fence it in because its destroying othre people's property. She doesnt listen. About 3-4 weeks ago I had two dogs enter my propery. It had been bitter cold and my girls had been in the coop for 3 weeks. I thought I"d let them out to free range. My property is fenced all the way around except the front along the road. Two dogs entered my yard and terrorized my girls. Killed two of them and took them and almost got two more. I ranted and raved to my friend about stupid people not tying up their dogs, she knows how much I love my chickens. The dogs had gotten my favorite one. I was crying in tears and vowed to kill these dogs should they return. She seemed to understand. Three days ago I get a call from her. Her dog had brought home another chicken and she wanted me to come get it or she would just let the dog have it. HELLO!! Yes once again her dog left her 5 acre farm and decided to enter someone else's yard. So now I sit with a Black Aust, who is very injured, no feathers on like half of its body, simply because she cant keep her dog tied up. Its getting to the point that I just dont even want to associate with her. Everytime I see that stinkin dog I want to go tie it up! Its a lovely dog, great with kids, calm, wonderful...just loves to eat chickens. Its totally her fault. She doesnt feed it all thetime and its hungry. It ticks me off. I have the option of fencing in my yard on the front. I cant imagine being in your shoes and not being able to fence anything.

    Can you go to the county or city meeting and ask for a special consideration for you to fence your property because of this? Document the amount of times, tell them you've talked to the owners but they arent doing anything and your afraid for your poultry. Ask for special consideration to fence and give them a type of fencing you would use, and where it would go. Sometimes they will grant special requests for issues like this. Its not the dogs fault..they are who they are, but owners need to realize these are pets to us. My dog wouldnt think of eating a chicken. She loves to lay in the yard with them and watch them peck around. They love her too, but she is little and cannot defend our yard on her own.

    OH I got a plan for you! put a fence of roosters up lol NOt only will they fight off dogs but hey a little extra noise to the inconciderate neighbors is a plus!! I know I'm getting me one!(not a fence of roosters..only one lol)
  7. Peck Johnson

    Peck Johnson Chirping

    Feb 26, 2011
    Greene County NY
    Quote:While this is good intentioned and well meaning advice it does not appear to me that jjthink has a fenced yard large enough for a Great Pyr or any other LGD. Another common mistake is to believe that an underground fence will contain a Livestock Guardian Dog - not a good idea. The only proper way to contain an LGD is with a strong fence and they should have plenty of space to move about or they will become unhappy and restless. And if you live in close proximity to neighbors they will quickly begin to resent you for an LDG defensive barking at night. This is coming from the happy owners of a Maremma Sheepdog, the best chicken guard we could ever have.
  8. purpletree23

    purpletree23 Songster

    May 15, 2009
    Tractor Supply sells Have a Heart traps big enough for a coyote. Could you trap the dog and then call animal control to see what the owners have to say now?

    TNBarnQueen I can't believe you lost 8 baby goats and the dogs are still coming back to kill more of your stock!

    To the people who mention flock is in an enclosed area and I have the electrified chicken tractor. That's as far as I go. I have 4 acres and can't imagine the cost of trying to fence that. I shouldn't have to fence it! I like seeing the deer and turkeys roaming around and the turtles in the spring when they come up from the creek to lay their eggs.

    The laws on the books about killing dogs who kill your animals or harass or even worry them was put there for a reason.
  9. Peck Johnson

    Peck Johnson Chirping

    Feb 26, 2011
    Greene County NY
    Quote:I fenced over 3.5 acres with 7 gates for less than $1500.

    It is not about having to or not having to fence. But a fence is arguably the best prevention against many predators. And if you have a dog, a rigid fence is the most responsible way to ensure that your dog cannot leave the property. Our chickens have free range of the whole property and are not locked in at night. Having the fence and the dog makes it much easier for me to sleep without worrying about fox, coyote, raccoon, possum, and bear. As for deer, while some people like them in the yard, I find them to be a nuisance and I would rather they not destroy all the hard work I put into plants, shrubs, and special trees.

    I do not think that laws are our best defense against irresponsible people. The judicial system is a lumbering giant and the law will not bring a massacred flock back from the dead.
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2011
  10. jjthink

    jjthink Crowing

    Jan 17, 2007
    New Jersey
    Thank you purple [​IMG]
    grayeyed - I hear you !
    galanie - Thanks for your efforts.
    ivan - Clever (I'm in residential so different situation but I imagine your stategy is compelling to folks!)
    TN - So sorry for all the heartache you and your furry and feathered friends had to endure because of irresponsible humans. It is not possible to add a dog but sure hope this works for your situation.
    drum - Well said.
    mattemma - I'm with you! Wish I could leave - more than words can adequately express - but until the flooding situation is resolved, my property will not sell.
    pack - Reading about the irresponsible person you describe makes me want to scream. Truly, she should be relieved of that dog before another innocent defenseless being is harmed. I hope the BA will recover [​IMG]. Additional fencing not possible with the legalities involved.

    Below in italics is along the lines of what I may send as a response to the note from my neighbor. She and her friend are more responsible dog owners than the really bad neighbors but it's still risky because their dogs do run loose we know, all it takes is one time to have a tragedy.

    Her note: Just so we have a complete picture - are the chickens running loose all day in warmer weather? Or are they usually enclosed and when free, supervised by you? What times of day would that be?Our dogs are not supposed to be in your direction, and we will be especially vigilant - just want to know the details. How many chickens are there?

    Despite the temptation to say that their dogs shouldn't be running loose EVER, and that I shouldn't have to report my bird's schedule, my draft response:

    There are just 2 birds - a very bonded 'old married couple' who love and care for each other .
    I've become so paranoid from prior dog incidences that I try to forego all other pressing tasks in order to stand right over them when they are out and about in the yard, but unfortunately learned that even this does not protect them because dogs are so fast. Less than 2 years ago I was standing not even 2 feet from hen Ellie - she was having so much fun playing and gathering worms (yum! - yuck, actually, but very good for them) in an area where I was turning soil - birds love to be in the company of their humans and also, an enclosed run becomes devoid of such 'nutritional treasures' after even a short time. A dog from another street barreled into the yard, knocking me down. I got multiple hand fractures and a bad (and to this day continually worsening) foot injury. The dog grabbed Ellie and dislocated (and permanently deformed) her foot before a friend who thankfully was also standing there was able to get the dog to drop her. The dog also went after Ellie's bird buddy and my cats. In just several seconds time there were almost too many injuries to count. This is a dog that can seem very friendly at other times - so many of them can instantly morph into different animals when there's something they want to chase/catch. So while I thought I was being a very responsible guardian standing maybe 14 inches tops from Ellie, both of us in my yard minding our own beeswax, the scene turned grizzly. So, long story short, the poor birds end up penned a lot of the time anymore. Although at one point 2 very strong dogs rammed the pen and mauled Ellie anyway. She nearly died and needed surgery. I spent a month tending to her almost around the clock to pull her through. Missed a lot of work. It's all pretty exhausting.
    My schedule is such that there isn't a consistent time or day when I know I will be in town and be able to give the birds a chance to exercise. Sometimes a weekday opportunity will arise without advance knowledge, though most weekdays I am tied up with work so early evening will usually be the first opportunity, if that. Weekends I hope to get them out to exercise. The birds are always locked up at night. The only exception would be - and it hasn't happened yet - is if some emergency prevents me from getting back to tuck them in and I'm unable to communicate with anyone to ask them to cover for me.

    Exhausting, the cumulative amount of time I spend on dog issues vis-a-vis chickens... My goal here, however, is to try to educate these folks politely (since their dogs have not caused injury as yet) because I think many dog owners do not realize what their sweet Fido is capable of OR how fast a situation can turn dire. They won't have the control over their dogs that they imagine they would. We'll see how it goes.
    I hope that what will be achieved is understanding and vigilance. JJ
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2011

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