Silver Pencilled Plymouth Rock

Discussion in 'Exhibition, Genetics, & Breeding to the SOP' started by Egghead_Jr, Sep 20, 2017.

  1. Egghead_Jr

    Egghead_Jr Crowing

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    You ever second guess yourself while eating your cockerel culls?

    I don't know where this thread is going. Could be a show off your birds thread, discussion of breeding challenges, a hodgepodge of everything including other silver pencilled breeds. No idea. Thought I'd toss up a few photos of this years F1's for now.


    DSCN1428.JPG DSCN1429.JPG DSCN1436.JPG DSCN1434.JPG DSCN1433.JPG

    Hey, I'm getting the hang of photos in this new format.

    Photos are today, first and second are of same pullet. She looks nice and absolutely no brown hue to her. As you can see in second photo she needs more width, not the tent tail I'm looking for. Third photo shows I do have some nice tails on a few birds, this cross did improve the Dam line in that regard and gain size.

    Pay no attention to the K with two tines fused. I didn't seem to pay it attention when culling last weekend....ugh. The last two photos of K is my breeder male for F2.

    All critic welcome.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2017
  2. Egghead_Jr

    Egghead_Jr Crowing

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    DSCN1438.JPG DSCN1431.JPG The goal of crossing two lines was to add the size and width of Sire and omit the tendency of red shoulders; retain the type and coloration of dams line and nip the side sprigs issue of that line too. All in all I'm happy but did have to cull the goliath K's, largest by a long shot male had superior size and width but also had long neck that started lower than shoulders- think vulture. So close!

    The Dams of this cross will not be used next spring but will be backcrossed to in 2019 with an F2 cock. Believe the width and size I'm hoping to gain in a flock is still genetically in the F1's and can find it with breeding them onto selves for F2. Time will tell.

    Adding a few photos of chosen breeder K trying to show he's got width full length, not easy to shot to get. He's wide full length, can't seem to get him to stand away from me and eat to really show the tall spread. If you could pick him up you'd know it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2017
  3. Storybook Farm

    Storybook Farm Songster

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    We're making final culls tomorrow. I'm a newbie at breeding. We hatched 60 birds and I think that these are my three best cockerels.

    Best comb; good tail set. I think the brassiness on his back is from sun? They've been outside for two months.

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    Biggest; also good tail set. Don't judge neck length by this photo.
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    Also nice: better tailset than picture shows.
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    Critique please? Going for shape; most confused about neck length. SOP says "moderately long"...?!

    How's the color? Other comments? I don't want to doubt my culls!
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2017
  4. Ursuline Chick

    Ursuline Chick Crossing the Road

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    Wish you lived near me, I would be happy to take your pullets that you wish to cull off your hands and give them a great home. They are just so beautiful and I can't have a roo, so would not be breeding them, just enjoying looking at them!
     
  5. Storybook Farm

    Storybook Farm Songster

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    @Egghead_Jr does brown in SPR pullets come from genetics (not sun exposure)? If genetics, how do you breed it out?
     
  6. Egghead_Jr

    Egghead_Jr Crowing

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    It's genetic. I cull for silver as chicks when hatching a ton of them. It's said that they are sex link to identify by the brown cast down. That's not really the case, I've had brown cockerels from the first line. Lowered that ratio of browns in second generation. Second line of birds we obtained were nearly all silver as chicks and the f1's were also 90% silver as chicks. You can't discount all brown chicks or you could miss out on a nice type if it's heavy in your flock but believe it's a goal to work toward. Even doing so some will have hint of it in sections.

    Avoid breeding brown cast hens and red shouldered or brassy males unless they have it all in every other attribute. Then you're working that out next few generations. The sire of my F1's had a bit red and there were better birds with a lot of brass. Culled a nice K last weekend with very small amount of red, had to think hard on it and come to find out I'd missed the fused tines on a K kept. In hindsight it was a horrible mistake.

    How do your K's already have tails? I do like the angle a lot. As for necks, I too pulled out the SOP book last weekend and scratched my head over "moderately long". Went to the images for clarification. It's as if they didn't want to say medium anymore (used for several features) and substituted Moderately long. Or is that a tad longer than medium? The images in SOP are the goto when in doubt.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2017
  7. Egghead_Jr

    Egghead_Jr Crowing

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    @Storybook Farm

    Don't forget wing set. Photos are subject to the bird's position at an exact time. Very hard to judge from.

    The wing looks low on third bird, second bird with great tail and back doesn't have the white on wing tip so it's up to the hens he's going over if that's OK or not. And the first does have a little brass. It's not that bad but definitely there.

    This is only my third year with this variety. By no means any kind of authority. Maybe @Wynette will jump in soon. I really like the second bird but with the lack of wing color the hens he goes over would have to have perfect lacing complete bird to make up for it I'd think. The third K actually has the nicest hackle striping. If his wing is higher in person which you say his tail is higher too he's likely me pick.

    When debating culls I pick them up. A lot can be told visually but when in doubt holding the bird will instantly make up my mind. If not the difference in weight then usually one has a wider back before the tail. The shoulder to tail should be nearly same width and a quick hand hold on lower back is my deciding factor if in doubt of two birds. Always go with the widest back. If Rhode Island reds are brick shaped then the Rock is a cinder block.
     
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  8. Storybook Farm

    Storybook Farm Songster

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    Thanks so much for responding! I don't think the second bird is without the wing color. I think it's the picture. But I will check and post later. I definitely want to work on brassiness in both cocks and hands this year, so if that is brassiness I don't think I'll keep him. Sad, because he has my best comb.

    In my birds, brassiness comes with adulthood. Is that normative? (This is why I thought it might be the outside sunlight, not genetics.)
     
  9. Storybook Farm

    Storybook Farm Songster

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    Fused tines?
     
  10. Storybook Farm

    Storybook Farm Songster

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    Jun 5, 2015
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    My Coop
    Another point of confusion for me: my birds have green backs. Let me clarify. I'm talking about the feathers that are up under the hackles, at the top of the shoulders. They only show in the birds reach down to eat. The SOP doesn't mention these feathers, that I can find, and it's descriptions. Are these green feathers the norm?
     

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