some think that gun laws are unconstitutional

[rebelcowboysnb]

Quote:
Define mass.

Violent death rates in the USA are about 18.57 for every 100 thousand people.

Estonia 70.76

Hungary 39.01

Mexico 21.74

Japan 17.34

Germany 17.00

Taiwan 15.00

Spain 8.97

...............

We have more citizen owned guns than any other country but we are about the middle on violent death.

Your more likely to die of Influenza and Pneumonia(2.7%) than being shot(1.2%) in the US.

 

[PineappleMama]

You and I agree massively on one thing... so far NO system is perfect.

Mainly, I think, because you're depending on human systems, designed to be obeyed by humans and enforced by humans... that in itself is a recipe for chaos.

But think back to before guns ever existed... then we slaughtered one another with blades... before blades... it was rocks... people are gonna kill people... sometimes they call it sanctioned, even holy, but it boils down to us killing our own with the best weapon we can grab... until we fix that fundamental flaw in our species I doubt that any weapon law is going to make much of an impact.

And NO, I've no clue, idea, or plan on HOW to go about doing that... I'm putting on my Sociologist hat and just going to point at problems but offer no solutions.

 

[thaiturkey]

Quote:
Define mass.

Violent death rates in the USA are about 18.57 for every 100 thousand people.

Estonia 70.76

Hungary 39.01

Mexico 21.74

Japan 17.34

Germany 17.00

Taiwan 15.00

Spain 8.97

...............

We have more citizen owned guns than any other country but we are about the middle on violent death.

Your more likely to die of Influenza and Pneumonia(2.7%) than being shot(1.2%) in the US.

When I mentioned mass killings I was referring to the rather too frequent examples of nut jobs walking into schools, McD's or around towns shooting anyone they can see. From memory I think that in each case the guns were owned legally.

Please post the source of your statistics. I wold like to take a closer look at them. Do they divide 'guns' from 'violent'?

 

[Organics North]

thaiturkey,
I enjoy your "company" here on BYC very much... With that said, I have to respectfully disagree with about 100% of everything you said regarding gun control!

Gun laws effect law abiding citizens. The definition of criminal is someone who breaks law! So why on earth would more gun laws do anything but prevent law abiding citizens from protecting themselves.

Concealed carry has been proven to be an effective deterant for criminals.

Besides unless I am the President and have secret service guarding my house, or some big fancy international executive with hired security... It is up to ME.. It is my responsibility to protect my family from harm.

It is a good feeling to go to sleep at night, knowing ANYONE who forcably enters my home with the intent to cause harm will be dead.

I am not a sheep and will not fear any other human for any reason. I will not be intimidated!

Your Peace loving, liberal, Libertarian/Socialist friend......

(Yes I am a Pisces, I am used to lots of oxymoron's in my life..)

ON

 

[SillyChicken]

Quote:
Define mass.

Violent death rates in the USA are about 18.57 for every 100 thousand people.

Estonia 70.76

Hungary 39.01

Mexico 21.74

Japan 17.34

Germany 17.00

Taiwan 15.00

Spain 8.97

...............

We have more citizen owned guns than any other country but we are about the middle on violent death.

Your more likely to die of Influenza and Pneumonia(2.7%) than being shot(1.2%) in the US.

When I mentioned mass killings I was referring to the rather too frequent examples of nut jobs walking into schools, McD's or around towns shooting anyone they can see. From memory I think that in each case the guns were owned legally.

Please post the source of your statistics. I wold like to take a closer look at them. Do they divide 'guns' from 'violent'?

Keep in mind areas of mass shootings..... schools, businesses etc... are areas were a law abiding citizen are not allowed to carry a gun. Except for McD's.. and I believe that was before most of us were "allowed" to carry one. You never hear about people who have protected themselves against crimes and I can guarantee you there are alot of them!

And all those countries above, I believe have banned guns (except some for hunting). Look at how high the crime rate is compared to the US! It's fact that states who allow CCPs have a crime rate drop. It's too risky for a criminal if their victim could be armed. When I was visiting a friend in Austria, where guns are banned, they have a huge problem with the Turks crossing the boarders with guns and attacking the citizens..... they cannot fight back.

I would love to see gun safety in schools for all kids (also inviting the parents to participate). I think this would help curb the curiosity for children playing with guns. I think it would help remove some of the fears people have. If you've been educated and trained, they don't seem so scary. I was raised around them and started shooting when I was 8 yrs old. We (3 kids) knew where they were kept, loaded and unlocked, and we NEVER thought about playing with them.

Whats nice about being here is that you have the right to choose. If you don't want a gun in your home or on your person.. thats your right to choose. Too many people feel that if they don't think a gun is necessary, no one else should have the right to choos them, and thats where I have the problem. I don't have a problem with reasonable laws and regulations on carrying concealed, open carry etc..

If someone is going to go on a nut and kill someone, if guns were banned, they'll find another way to do it. So to me that is a lame excuse to use the "what if's" to base the need for banning guns.

There's a saying that China would never invade the US because there is a gun behind every blade of grass........ Think about that and how this thought could be what has protected us from other countries for so long....... and face it, America is not Miss Popularity! The only attacks to our country have been from the air cause they're too chicken to face us on the street!

 

[welsummerchicks]

I don't think the founding fathers anticipated a 90% urban country where people are blowing each other away for standing in the street or wearing the wrong color pants in the wrong neighborhood, with the regularity they are today. The original law was intended to help people protect their new country from invasion by foreign powers, and to allow them to shoot Native Americans who were getting testy about them moving in.

Are gun classes wrong? No, not even for people who already have experience with guns. A person can always learn something new, and people who are experienced with anything tend to be the sloppiest and less cautious. It also gives an opportunity to catch unbalanced people who are getting guns to kill someone to show Jodie Foster how great they are or the like.

 

[Dunkopf]

Quote:
Sorry I used the wrong quote and I'm not sure how to change it. If you read my post you'll figure it out.

So all these countries you listed that decided "to embrace" the religion of gun control would be fine now if they had not done that? One day they passed a law stating no ore guns. The next day heavily armed government troops went door to door searching houses and took all their guns. The next day they went back and since they didn't have any guns they were rounded up and killed. Read the sequence of events and see how silly that sounds. Like Thai said a citizenry armed with handguns and rifles is not going to stop an invading Army. By the same token they will not stop their own government from taking away their guns. The only thing that will stop that is to keep the government from having radicals in it that would want to actually do that.

I'm sure that America has had politicians that would like to take away guns. So far all I've ever seen is politicians that would like to control guns through background checks and registration. The whole CCP lowers crime thing is a joke. If I'm a junkie looking for some cash I'm not going to grab the old ladies purse because she might have a 45 under her skirt. If you have a gun in a holster on your hip I would probably avoid you unless I wanted to take your gun, in which case I would stick my gun in your face and tell you to give me your gun. Show me some actual statistics from a reliable non biased source. In other words don't give me some web site from the NRA or some other radical right wing group. Or a web site from a radical left wing group.

All I'm saying is use some actual data which doesn't exist, or just say "Hey we are Americans, we have always had guns and we want to keep them. I don't care about all the violent deaths associated with them or the fact that more people have their own guns used on them than those that stop bad people. Most guns that criminals have were stolen from homes of honest citizens. I want guns because it is my right". That's all you have to do. It is your right and nobody is trying to take that right away. All the bills that have been proposed are all typical politics to appease city dwellers that are tired of being killed by bad guys that get guns from good guys. The bills always die before they come to the floor, just like hundreds of other bills.

The one valid concern which I haven't heard voiced is that if all guns were registered and we were invaded by another countries military. The invading force would have a list of all the gun owners. Since we are the most powerful country in the world militarily. I don't see that happening. Eventually China will take over that status. After all we give their government as much money as we give ours. But it will be awhile.

 

[Dunkopf]

Quote:
We have proven our system works over the last 250 years. In those same 250 years other countrys have proven gun control does not.

All wars are won or lost on the ground an there is not much chance a invader can bring enough people in to the US to stand up to the citizens of the USA. Thats how we won our independence an thats how we have kept it. Its also how we can safely send our army to fight in other countrys. Our army is not our real military power.

Actually we have proven that our system works. We have the most violent gun deaths of any country but that is to be expected. We probably also have the most car crashes.

Nobody has proven that countries that control guns don't work. The UK has strict gun control laws and they have much lower death rates caused by guns.

We won our freedom because we have a huge ocean between us and England. If we were next door to England we would not have been successful. Our isolation and the fact that we are bordered by two countries with small military forces is the reason we have not been invaded. Then we got powerful enough that we were one of 2 superpowers in the world. The only country that could have invaded us was the USSR. Then we spent them in to the ground and we are now the Top Dog. Don't fool yourself. The slogan about we fight so you can be free has a ring of truth to it. They just haven't fought any wars in the last 66 years to defend our freedom. Their very presence is the reason we are free.

 

[Organics North]

Quote:
I spin what you say around..(Because in reality it is the way it is.

)
We are the aggressor and have not been able to win a war since WWII. We rely heavily on air support and so on. Why did we not win. Korea, Vietnam, Iraq 1, Afghanistan, Iraq 2??????????
Because:::::: When the will of most every man woman and child is to get the aggressor out and they have access to weapons of any sort, it is virtually impossible to win by force.... It always remains the will of the people...

ON

 

[thaiturkey]

Quote:
Thank you for the compliment.

I don't mind you disagreeing with me. This is a discussion and that is how we learn about other people's views.

I suppose that I may have a different view because I lived for many years in a place where it was very, very unlikely that some one would break in during the night carrying a gun. All that I needed to protect myself, just in case, was a piece of wood, or nothing. I suppose that I could be walking around in England one day and a loony with a gun could appear but, even if I had a gun, I would probably not be carrying it the time. I get a good night's sleep by living a quiet life in a good neighbourhood behind secure walls and doors with a few self defence weapons that don't need a licence.

Where's the oxymoron in your labels? Don't label yourself. You're an individual.