Someone keeps making complaints about my chickens! (Update post #222!)

[jerseygirl1]

I am saying prayers for you and yours and really, really, angry at your neighbor - I wish you could ask them for pcitures of your chickens doing these things they say they are doing
Your neighbors sound very disturbed

 

[happi752]

wow this is terrible. i will be watching this saga unfold for sure. i am so sorry you are having to go thru this. you really need to find out all the laws about chickens. maybe you are missing something? ask the enforcers to provide you with a complete full copy of the law in its entirety. God Bless and good luck.



trying to help here.

i looked up your statue for your town. it reads in full as follows:

Sec. 4-10. Fowl going at large.

(a) No person owning or having in his custody and control any fowl shall permit same to run at large, or to go upon the grounds or property of another, or beyond the bounds of the property of such owner or person in control of such fowl.

(b) Any person who shall violate any provision of this section shall be fined not less than one dollar ($1.00) nor more than twenty-five dollars ($25.00) for each offense.

State law references: Strays and animals running at large, KRS ch. 259.






So i looked up the State law reference for Kentucky revised statutes and it reads in full as follows:


259.200 Trespassing on park, camp grounds or floodwalls prohibited.
No person shall permit any cattle to run or trespass upon any state or national parks, encampment grounds, scout camps, grounds dedicated to religious, educational or recreational purposes or floodwalls erected at public expense.
Effective: June 17, 1954
History: Amended 1954 Ky. Acts ch. 229, sec. 1, effective June 17, 1954. -- Recodified 1942 Ky. Acts ch. 208, sec. 1, effective October 1, 1942, from Ky. Stat. sec. 4645n-2.



AND ALSO IN FULL AS FOLLOWS:


259.210 Cattle not to run at large -- Damages -- Lien, impounding -- Powers of cities.
(1) No person shall permit any cattle owned by him or under his control or in his custody, to run at large.
(2) If any damage is committed by cattle permitted to run at large, the owner of the cattle shall be liable for all damages, whether the place where the damages occurred is inclosed by lawful fence or not. The person damaged shall have a lien on the cattle committing the damage for the amount of the damage and cost of suit.
(3) The sheriff or any other peace officer shall impound any cattle found running at large in the county, and the owner or bailee of the cattle shall pay to the officer impounding, for each head impounded, one dollar ($1) and the cost of feeding and taking care of the cattle, but the cost of impounding any number of cattle shall not exceed three dollars ($3) and the cost of feeding. The sheriff or any other peace officer shall have a lien on the cattle impounded for his fees and expenses, which he may enforce in the same manner in which mortgage liens are enforced.
(4) Nothing in this section shall be construed as limiting any powers possessed by cities to regulate cattle running at large.
History: Created 1950 Ky. Acts ch. 20, secs. 1 to 4.




NOW to get the definition of "at large", you would have to go to the Kentucky Acts 1950 volume chapter 20 sections 1 through 4 and see what the original law reads on "at large". Unfortunately, the older acts are not online and you would have to visit your local law library to get that information.


But generally, running "at large" would not mean running on your own property. Proof of damage would have to be submitted, but, because the way the state law is written, they can pretty much take the complainer at their word that the chickens are "running at large" and impound your birds WITHOUT a court hearing IF THEY ARE NOT ON YOUR PROPERTY, you would have to pay the fees and fines and pay for any damages your neighbors "claim" your chickens did, and possibly even have to hire an attorney to get your chickens back.


IN NO WAY DO YOU ALLOW ANYONE TO TAKE YOUR LIVESTOCK OFF OF YOUR OWN PROPERTY AS YOU MAY NEVER GET THEM BACK.

I would suggest you print out all your local and state laws and have them on hand in case animal control comes to try to remove chickens from your property. Do not allow them to take them and immediately call out the local police and put the state laws printed in front of the officer that comes out. Demand that the animal control is tresspassing and push to file trespassing charges against them if they are not willing to leave IMMEDIATELY!!!!! Demand that animal control get a court hearing in front of a judge before you allow them access to your chickens.



THIS IS IN NOOOOOOOOOO WAY TO BE TAKEN AS LEGAL ADVICE!!!!!!!!!!!! PLEASE CONSULT A LISCENSED ATTORNEY IN YOUR AREA FOR ANY INFORMATION ON YOUR LOCAL AND STATE LAWS!!!!!! FOR ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY!

 

[Andora]

Thanks for the for-entertainment-only legal advice!

My DH just talked to one of the code enforcers, the one who says they need to be caged. He still insists they need to be caged and he was totally rude and unhelpful on the phone. My DH ended up yelling at him.

We discovered one major problem is that each time a different code enforcer comes to our house, they start it as a separate case. So we have 3 or 4 cases open for the same issue. It makes no sense at all, and makes everything a thousand times more confusing.

I'm going to have my husband call the supervisor of code enforcement tomorrow and tell him that we won't allow the officer who's coming on Friday to investigate for compliance onto our property until we are presented with the ordinance we are violating, the legal kentucky state definition of "at large", specific reference to where it states chickens must be caged, and for any further complaints we will require photo or video of the alleged damage and chickens harassing neighborhood children.

The enforcer coming on Friday said he has a picture of a chicken in the neighbors yard from the beginning of September. The white one that got out twice, which has since then been constantly caged. Apparently fixing the issue four weeks ago immediately after it happened isn't enough for them.

My husband has a friend whose father is a lawyer. DH is checking to see if the friend's father will be able to help us out or give us advice. I would like to be able to tell the city that for any further complaints my lawyer will need the name and address of the complaining neighbor because we feel we are being harassed...

And if the guy does show up on Friday to investigate, I definitely will not allow any chickens to be taken from my property.

Do you think I should just leave them all cooped when the code enforcer comes? They can't stay cooped forever because they pretty much just have roost space in there, but they should be alright for a day. That way there will be nothing for him to see or photograph. (Did I tell you all how he photographed my entire yard, including my cat, the inside of my garage door, and my water hose?)

I'm so fed up with all of this.

 

[Andora]

Just wanted to add...

My dad works next door to the law library at the university and he's going to stop by and get a copy of the definition of "at large" for me tomorrow! I can't wait to see what it says.

 

[cassie]

It wouldn't hurt to have a tape recorder and/or a video camera in plain sight when any code officer comes. Also come to the door armed with a clip board and a legal pad.

If I were you I would go to the law library in person to get copies of the codes you need. In my experience the reference librarians are very helpful, and I am sure happi752 can tell you exactly what books to look in to find the relevant codes if you ask him/her. Make several copies, and give one to the code officer if necessary.

You would be better off to go to the office of the code enforcer supervisor in person rather than contact him by phone.

Happi752 and others have given you some excellent advice and I think you are on the right track on your own. BTW, did you ever get a response to your email?

 

[cassie]

OOPS!! Just noticed you already have copies of the "running at large" definitions. Sorry. It looks like BYCers may have saved you a trip to the law library.

 

[patman75]

Make copies of the code and highlight the important areas. Everytime someone stops by just hand them the code and don't say anything else.

If it keeps up invite the local news to come out the same time the next inspector comes over. Make sure everyone on the news crew get a fresh dozen eggs.

Mass mail the code to the nieghborhood. Do not put in the mailboxes, that is a federal crime.

 

[BirdMom]

I hope you can get your friend's dad to help you out. My dad's a retired lawyer in another state and always loved writing letters (for free) to help out with our friends' legal issues. He got a lot of garbage like this stopped.

It sounds like the code people are wanting to try to get you to get rid of your chickens just so this stupid complainant will stop. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. She won't shut up about it, so to make her stop, they just want the chickens to go away. Don't let them on your property anymore without them having legal proof you're doing something wrong. You have legal proof you aren't doing anything wrong. Print out multiple copies of all the code stuff relating to this, and anytime they come to your house, hand them a copy, with the applicable sentences highlighted, maybe, so they know you know your legal rights.

I think it's time to get the local media involved. Call or email the Herald-Leader, and all of the local news stations. This can be an especially interesting story for them as with the current economic situation, more and more people are trying to raise their food at home, and raising chickens in their backyard. The constant harassment from the neighbor and the code enforcement people, and the stuff about you from cheapcycle, all of that could be very interesting to them.

Good luck with this. It is ridiculous. I believe it may even be an illegal search for them to come on your property if you don't allow it, and I don't think you should allow it. They're hunting for anything they can pin on you to make this awful neighbor quit bothering them. They don't have a search warrant, so just don't allow them into your backyard anymore.

I sure hope you can make this stupidity stop. You certainly don't need this stress right now with your baby and your husband's job situation.

 

[6chickens in St. Charles]

Is it a crime to make up code just because you sit in the code enforcement office? The code on the books does not even include the word "cage". How can this code enforcement officer state that you must do that to your chickens? That is not enforcement of code; that is simply their opinion BUT NOT A LAW WRITTEN IN STONE. You have lived within your rights according to the code for how long? Now this code enforcement officer demands that you do something which has never even been written into the code? That sounds illegal. When does the code enforcement officer plan to protect your rights ACCORDING TO CITY CODE? Does their job description include making stuff up to harrass citizens who abide by the law? Lets get a copy of the job description of a code enforcement officer of your city and hold them accountable to their word. Nobody is above the law.

 

[BluegrassSeramas]

I really like the idea of making a recording when the enforcement officer is there! That might make him sweat a little! Tell him that you were having a hard time describing all that was said the last time to his supervisor, so you would like to have this visit recorded.

Also the Herald Leader wrote a nice article about chicken raising with Pat Buck and his Seramas among others, a couple of years ago...think it might be time for another. People are reading more yellow press now than real news anyway.

Also, also...
I'm just in Georgetown off Ironworks, if you need some back up give me a call. I have lots of friends and we could go door to door with some big thug-types and demand to know what they think about chickens. Or we can send people to take "surveys" (for a college paper?) on sustainable living and gardens and backyard animal husbandry and see what everyone thinks about that.... Then we will know who hates chickens and put a dead 'possum in their mailbox! BWwahahahahahahah! <evil laugh> lol