Southern NY, Dutchess county and below

[Imprfctme]

All these posts about the mystery diseases makes me grateful for my so-far healthy flock, and worried about adding new birds in the spring. I may just stand pat for a while to be on the safe side.

CFG, my hat's off to you for sharing the facts about what's been going on. If people don't admit there's a problem, how can it be fixed?

On a different topic, I finally finished my "hurricane afghan". I've wanted to do this project for years, and it will be years before I do it again. What a crapload of work!

Here it is:

Oh my god Suzanne, it's gorgeous! What an amazing afghan.

 

[queenchick16]

Heartbreaking, Roberta.   You are definitely made of stronger stuff than I.   Grrrrrrrrrrrrr;  when I think of the chain of events that brought all this to your flock, especially the links that could have, should have, been averted, avoided, and addressed, it makes me want to scream.    Sending you intense wishes for strength and courage to face whatever you decide must be done.

For what it's worth, my four girls, the two that were Necklace's long-time companions and the two young Orpingtons that you brought to me before you took Necklace away to your yard because she was such a bully, are all still free of any symptoms.  They are all happy and healthy looking.   Two are in molt and not laying, but new feathers are fast coming in and all four chickens are eating and drinking and pooping normally, and showing lots of energy.     I'm curious:  has Necklace shown any symptoms and/or did you cull her just in case anyway?  She was, (as you know) Marek's vaccinated, but as you've explained above, she may nevertheless possibly have been a carrier despite having no symptoms.     

I had the five byc gals on Monday wear fabric shoe coverings when they went outside into my yard.   Except for Rosie (I think it was Rosie) who brought a brand new pair of rubber thong shoes to wear.  I guess that's good bio-security for my flock, but now I wonder, did she then wear those thongs in her chicken yard when she got home.    The fabric shoe coverings went right into the garbage here after the five women left to go home.    Now, of course, I'm reeling from the stupidity of not telling her that the bio security has to work both ways and she should have worn the booties anyway. (or at the very least, disinfected the thongs when she got home.) ROSIE:  I HOPE YOU'RE READING THIS.
-Carolyn

Carolyn, they went from the plastic bag in my car to a bleach solution.i have some 20+ pair of flip/flops that I bleach every week I never wear a contaminated pair anywhere.

 

[Imprfctme]

Carolyn, they went from the plastic bag in my car to a bleach solution.i have some 20+ pair of flip/flops that I bleach every week I never wear a contaminated pair anywhere.

Good for you Carol, that's better than most of us. I try to remember to bleach my muck boots but honestly who has the time? I do make sure to wash and disinfect my shoes and clothes after I've been to a show, but I really just had luck when I added the two bantams to my flock. Roberta, this is hard for all of us that know you to hear, we know how much you care for your birds. I will say I think Marek's is pretty common in New England so it might not be a bad thing that I haven't yet made it to that show. I too have stopped with the wild bird feeders, but how do you prevent them from dropping by the coop while the door is open during the day? Or keep the field mice, skunks, coons and other mammals out of the coop? It's unfortunate but it happens. Please don't blame yourself too much, it could have been any of us that had this happen.

 

[Carolyn252]

Carolyn, they went from the plastic bag in my car to a bleach solution.i have some 20+ pair of flip/flops that I bleach every week I never wear a contaminated pair anywhere.

Oh, Good, good, good. Glad to hear it. Whew!

All this chicken disease talk has put me in mind of Edna St. Vincent Milay's poem "Conscientious Objector".

 

[stoopid]

You can't make yourself crazy over this. If it were for a human, I might feel differently
We're talking chickens. But I still cry like crazy, these were my babies.
What really sucks is after ten years, I had finally decided which breed to go forward ith. The Showgirls.
And now I don't have any.









I am crying hysterically, with the last (hopefully) of the infected birds on my lap.
He is having trouble walking, but I wonder if it will go away and he will get better.
Yeah, right. Only a matter of time until I have to kill him, too.
He, too, was at that show that everyone else got sick at.
Gee, that first place wasn't really worth it, was it? Tonight when I went to lock up the coops, he was scrunched up against the fence.
He can't walk up the ramp anymore to go to bed.
So if I wasn't paying attention, he would be eaten by a raccoon.
Of course I'll bring him into the houe to sit on my lap.
Until he is dead. He's my baby.
And then, I start to wonder, did I vaccuum enough? Is there his dander anywhere else?
Did I have him in the car? Did I pick him up, and contaminate my clothes?
Did he rub up against any of the other birds?
Ouch my head hurts.

 

[Carolyn252]

I can take credit for the banana bread. I used the recipe in the Joy of Cooking (my bible), which I saw in your cookbook collection. It's the quick banana bread recipe, except that I eliminated the lemon peel and added a half bag of mini chips to it. (I find banana bread a little boring and everything is better with chocolate!)

I believe it was Carol, not Rosie, who wore the flip flops.

And I do appreciate the shoe booties. I never thought much about bio security, but I will now. In fact, I'm thinking I might cancel my reservation for the Springfield show. I'm feeling a little paranoid and broke. Not a good combo...

Thanks for pointing the way to the bread recipe. I mucho, mucho, agree with you about "everything is better with chocolate!!!"
-Carolyn

 

[queenchick16]

You can't make yourself crazy over this. If it were for a human, I might feel differently
We're talking chickens. But I still cry like crazy, these were my babies.
What really sucks is after ten years, I had finally decided which breed to go forward ith. The Showgirls.
And now I don't have any.









I am crying hysterically, with the last (hopefully) of the infected birds on my lap.
He is having trouble walking, but I wonder if it will go away and he will get better.
Yeah, right. Only a matter of time until I have to kill him, too.
He, too, was at that show that everyone else got sick at.
Gee, that first place wasn't really worth it, was it? Tonight when I went to lock up the coops, he was scrunched up against the fence.
He can't walk up the ramp anymore to go to bed.
So if I wasn't paying attention, he would be eaten by a raccoon.
Of course I'll bring him into the houe to sit on my lap.
Until he is dead. He's my baby.
And then, I start to wonder, did I vaccuum enough? Is there his dander anywhere else?
Did I have him in the car? Did I pick him up, and contaminate my clothes?
Did he rub up against any of the other birds?
Ouch my head hurts.

I wish I could do or say something to help you. My heart is breaking for you.
Carol

 

[Carolyn252]

You can't make yourself crazy over this. If it were for a human, I might feel differently
We're talking chickens. But I still cry like crazy, these were my babies.
What really sucks is after ten years, I had finally decided which breed to go forward ith. The Showgirls.
And now I don't have any.









I am crying hysterically, with the last (hopefully) of the infected birds on my lap.
He is having trouble walking, but I wonder if it will go away and he will get better.
Yeah, right. Only a matter of time until I have to kill him, too.
He, too, was at that show that everyone else got sick at.
Gee, that first place wasn't really worth it, was it? Tonight when I went to lock up the coops, he was scrunched up against the fence.
He can't walk up the ramp anymore to go to bed.
So if I wasn't paying attention, he would be eaten by a raccoon.
Of course I'll bring him into the house to sit on my lap.
Until he is dead. He's my baby.
And then, I start to wonder, did I vacuum enough? Is there his dander anywhere else?
Did I have him in the car? Did I pick him up, and contaminate my clothes?
Did he rub up against any of the other birds?
Ouch my head hurts.

Oy, oy, oy. I'm crying for you/with you. So sad. So sad.
-Carolyn

 

[littlecritters]

Top photo:  Donna, Suzanne, Rosie, Heather, Carol.

Bottom photo:  Suzanne, Carolyn, Rosie, Heather, Carol.

I'm pretty sure that I got the names right.  It was Donna's camera;  she took one photo and I used her camera and took the other photo.  So she's in one of the shots and I'm in the other. 

Somebody please tell me the  backyardchicken screen names for these gals.  I've got some of them figured out, I think, but want to be sure.
-Carolyn (I'm Carolyn252)

Thanks! It's nice to put faces with names.

Ginny, my biggest problem with this whole deal.....
I brought 2 different birds to my vet at different times, and was told it WAS NOT Mareks.
So instead of catching it right away, the contamination continued for MONTHS.
I am so lucky it has just been a few birds, and not my whole flock.
And everyone else's flocks that I know.
Very scary stuff, for sure. And I trust my vet, it seems she is just inexperienced with this disease.

I would have trusted the vet also. Now we know...the absolute only way to tell if a bird has Mareks (regardless of whatever symptoms they have) is via a necropsy. I've spoken to Dr Stout at Cornell Diagnostic lab about Mareks and she was pretty definitive in saying that a bird can present every Mareks symptom under the sun...but you can not make a diagnosis based on symptoms alone (and there is no blood test). Conversely you can not rule out Mareks without a necropsy.

As you know, I had 5 that looked like Marek's and now I have what looks like Coryza going around (no necropsy, but one of my birds went lame and then had a giant lump on her side...). My flock is vaccinated for Marek's, but again it only protects against the tumor development, not the contracting of the disease and is not 100% effective. I will not be letting any birds leave this property because I must assume the worst. I also will not be attending any shows unless this clears up and then I am not sure if I want to risk bringing something in again.  If it is Coryza I will never be able to get rid of it, what is the old saying "burn the barn"? Anyway, it is very irritating. I am taking the leave them alone and see who lives approach to in the hopes of breeding in resistence, but it is hard to look at them and do nothing. I am being very liberal with the Oxine and culling those that are suffering. So far, since August I have lost 3/5 that have shown symptoms of lameness. The lung junk seems to be coming and going, but the birds do not seem to be affected by it other than an occasional "cough". So far I have not let it diminish the enjoyment I get from these feathered companions, but it does threaten to do so.

I'm very very sorry for your losses and that you have an ongoing struggle with this in your flock.

What a nightmare, Roberta. As you know, I'm going through something similar that came in with sick birds that were shipped to me from GF in fl. They were sick out of the box complete with foul odor about the head and a clear runny nose and I put them into quarantine, hoping it was a crop issue and shipping stress. The necropsy done by Cornell said coryza. By then, the other birds in the pen closest to the quarantine pen were all infected and had to be destroyed. The problem with coryza is that even if a particular bird develops personal immunities to the bacteria, they will still shed it for life, possibly infecting countless other birds including wildlife and perhaps other flocks. I don't take chances like that and culled them all. It is shocking to me that big breeders will keep carriers in their flock and ship them all over the country. No wonder these diseases are so endemic!!!!! Luckily for me I managed to prevent the spread to my other birds but I lost more than a third to the mass cull. 23 in all. My other option was permanent, full time quarantine for them, IF they recovered, and I simply couldn't risk the infection of others. I am guessing that the winds from the hurricane blew the bacteria into the other pen, but don't know for sure. I do know the breeder has not accepted any responsibility whatsoever. I'm going to try to rebuild my flock with eggs. Never again will I bring in a started bird of any age. It just isn't worth the risks..... there won't be any showing for me either but I guess I can live with that.

I'm here simply telling the truth too. Hopefully others will not make the same mistake that I did in trusting a big breeder, who seems to me should know better but either doesn't know better or simply doesn't care.

I'm so sorry about your flock JH. I hope it isn't coryza..

Losing so many birds must have been devastating. I am truly sorry for what you have gone through.

Those symptoms don't sound like coryza to me, but there are some respiratory illnesses that aren't nearly as bad in my humble opinion.. Infectious bronchitis, for instance, is crazy contagious but once they're over it, they have immunity and aren't carriers beyond the first couple of weeks. I'm not an expert. Just have done a tremendous amount of research while waiting for the necropsy results.

In any event, I wish you the absolute best of luck with it. Having sick birds is extremely stressful, at least I found it to be. Best wishes to everyone, and may your flocks remain healthy and sound.

I think stressful is almost an understatement...disrupts life and is a very emotional experience.

You can't make yourself crazy over this. If it were for a human, I might feel differently
We're talking chickens. But I still cry like crazy, these were my babies.
What really sucks is after ten years, I had finally decided which breed to go forward ith. The Showgirls.
And now I don't have any.









I am crying hysterically, with the last (hopefully) of the infected birds on my lap.
He is having trouble walking, but I wonder if it will go away and he will get better.
Yeah, right. Only a matter of time until I have to kill him, too.
He, too, was at that show that everyone else got sick at.
Gee, that first place wasn't really worth it, was it? Tonight when I went to lock up the coops, he was scrunched up against the fence.
He can't walk up the ramp anymore to go to bed.
So if I wasn't paying attention, he would be eaten by a raccoon.
Of course I'll bring him into the houe to sit on my lap.
Until he is dead. He's my baby.
And then, I start to wonder, did I vaccuum enough? Is there his dander anywhere else?
Did I have him in the car? Did I pick him up, and contaminate my clothes?
Did he rub up against any of the other birds?
Ouch my head hurts.

Hugs, hugs and more hugs to you. I understand how you feel...Tina

 

[stoopid]

And..... another facet to my story.....

Some people have said that the virus can be shed from vaccinated to non-vaccinated birds.

A few months ago, I located some Buff Orps for Carolyn252.
They were young, and needed to grow out, or else her girls would have bullied the little ones.

I took them home, from a different show, from a breeder that I trust, and raised them with my birds.
How do I know how and what happens with this? They were around 7 weeks old, so I didn't think I had to worry

And another one.....

Carolyn had a girl that needed to go. She was a very bad girl. Egg eating, bully bad girl.

I knew she vas vaccinated, I knew where she came from, so I let Necklace into my flock.

Doc Brown told me that the older vaccines (over 2 years old) will also shed. Different formula.
I still have Necklace, she and my bad boy Shamo are quite the couple.

And.... one more.....

The vaccine is on backorder. There is only one manufacturer.
It only comes in one size. 1,000 doses. C'mon, really.
That's why it's backordered. Make a small flock size!
It's what's known as a live vaccine.
Once you activate it, you only have around an hour to use it.
So alot gets thrown out. And you can't even save it, and let someone else use it!
And you can't throw it into the garbage, it needs to be incinerated.
Scary shiRt.