JessicaJR
In the Brooder
I'm a backyard breeder with about 3-4 years experience with chickens. I have over 25 years of experience with other livestock and pets, so I'm not a newbie. But I am at a loss...
Background:
I had about 25 adult birds in 4 coops/pens. No significant issues in the past year or so. I do bring in new birds occasionally but usually only from friend/fellow breeder flocks and with a 30 day quarantine. This spring I brought home a trio of adult birds that had been bought from me as chicks and a fellow breeder and friend had decided to downsize her breeds and I offered to buy them back. I think that may be the source but not 100% sure. She is not the person to sell sick birds and her reputation is important to her, so no blame there. But those are the only birds I've brought home this season. 30 day quarantine and then introduced them to my current flock.
Maybe 60 days after I brought them home, find the rooster dead. No obvious sign of injury but birds die sometimes so I was sad but just kinda shrugged. There are no chicken vets within 75-90 minutes drive of my house so that isn't an option. About 3 weeks later, found another bird dead. Different pen but from the same trio (I split up the trio into 2 different pens). Upset now, but not really sure what to do...none of the other birds appear sick. No more deaths for at least a month. Then again...dead bird and another with weepy eyes and seems off balance. Of course while I'm out of town for 2 weeks and a chicken friend is watching my flock. Sick chicken is given vitamins, probiotics, and kept inside in my friends bathtub (she's a good friend) but died anyways.
2 weeks later, a hen develops really swollen and weepy eyes. Next day, another hen with same swelling. Looks like a red mini donut around her eyeball on both sides. Hard to the touch and not able to express anything out. Not an infection *in* the eye socket (I've seen those videos of people popping out yellow/white puss balls), but red and swollen around in the sinuses. Started Tylan inj. and they are acting ok, but swelling is still about the same after 5 or 6 days (I've lost track). They seem to be eating and drinking ok, but noticeably very thin.
Yesterday, noticed a rooster wheezing and sounding like he's got crud in his throat. No swelling around the eyes, but started him on antibiotics too. (I'm running out of isolation space). This morning, noticed that 2 of the 3 hens that were in with the wheezy rooster have swollen eyes now too, although not as swollen as the first 2 hens yet. So that's 5 sick birds currently from 2 separate pens. So about 75% of my birds have been directly exposed to a sick bird. And the others are all with 50 feet of those pens, even if they aren't attached, so likely exposed.
I have bad carpal tunnel in both hands and just had surgery on the first one, so drawing up the thick antibiotic and giving injections is literally torture for me. Giving that many injections is truly impossible for me and hubby is not able/willing to help-it's not his thing and that's fine most of the time.
I have also had almost complete drop off of egg laying from all my birds. It's been HOT here 100+ degrees and also they have started molting (feathers everywhere) so I contributed it to that. But now I'm wondering if sickness could be playing a part too and the others are sick but just not showing obvious signs. I picked up a couple of the more tame "healthy" hens and they definitely felt thin/light to me.
So I have some questions.
1) Should I treat my whole flock now since this appears to be spreading? Also water soluble antibiotics would be easier for me than many, many injections. While I hate to use antibiotics unless absolutely necessary, I'm leaning towards ordering powdered antibiotics that I can dose all the waterers with and try to treat any birds that are sick but not showing overt signs of it yet since they've all been exposed. Does that sound reasonable?
2) The "research" I've been doing and looking at all the various pictures makes me afraid that it may be something like MG or another organism where the birds will always be a carrier and may get sick in the future or may never lay well again. I breed and sell chicks and hatching eggs locally and I will not be able to do that if this is not something that will go away. I'm terrified that I will have to cull my whole flock and start over if I want to continue to be a small scale breeder, which I really enjoy. But I would NEVER knowingly sell sick birds. So even if I treat and they get better, I still won't really know what it was and if I'm potentially selling birds and/or chicks and hatching eggs from birds that are still carriers of a pathogen.
This is all statement...here's the questions. Could something cause these types of symptoms and not be a "cull your flock or never sell birds again" type of infection? Or do the symptoms point to a "nasty one" (for lack of a better term) even without testing?
3) How common is a "nasty" infection such as mycoplasma, coryza, etc where they may be carriers for life? I know just because there are photos all over the internet doesn't make it an everyday occurrence...
4) In the BYC forums, I found mention of Zoologix in California that will run PCR for 8 poultry respiratory pathogens (very sensitive testing). It would identify if any of these are present in the sample sent in (see description below). I am confidant I can do the tracheal swab by myself, but the test is $100 plus shipping and would only identify organisms, not provide recommendations for treatment (ie not a culture and sensitivity). It would definitively tell me if the pathogen is one of these 8 possibilities. But if it's not, then I'm left with no information (other than that it's NOT one of these). Since I am disabled at the moment without income, this would be a huge expense for me. But I'm willing to do it if it seems reasonable. Does this testing seem like overkill? Or does this seem like a valuable investment to you more experienced chicken keepers?
Poultry respiratory PCR panel - Poultry respiratory panel detects and differentiates eight clinically significant respiratory pathogens:
Avian influenza
Aspergillus fumigatus
Bordetella avium
Infectious bronchitis
Infectious laryngotracheitis
Infectious coryza
Ornithobacterium rhinotracheale
Mycoplasma gallisepticum
5) While my birds are not pets per se, they are loved and I would hate to lose them. But if the possibility is high that they have one of the "nasty" infections where they will be carriers for life and will infect any other birds they come into contact with, I wonder if the money for testing would be better spent toward purchasing quality replacement stock to start over. I'm really at a loss and I don't know what the best way is to proceed. But it's breaking my heart to keep losing birds and to see them get sick one by one. Any support/advice/etc. appreciated.
Background:
I had about 25 adult birds in 4 coops/pens. No significant issues in the past year or so. I do bring in new birds occasionally but usually only from friend/fellow breeder flocks and with a 30 day quarantine. This spring I brought home a trio of adult birds that had been bought from me as chicks and a fellow breeder and friend had decided to downsize her breeds and I offered to buy them back. I think that may be the source but not 100% sure. She is not the person to sell sick birds and her reputation is important to her, so no blame there. But those are the only birds I've brought home this season. 30 day quarantine and then introduced them to my current flock.
Maybe 60 days after I brought them home, find the rooster dead. No obvious sign of injury but birds die sometimes so I was sad but just kinda shrugged. There are no chicken vets within 75-90 minutes drive of my house so that isn't an option. About 3 weeks later, found another bird dead. Different pen but from the same trio (I split up the trio into 2 different pens). Upset now, but not really sure what to do...none of the other birds appear sick. No more deaths for at least a month. Then again...dead bird and another with weepy eyes and seems off balance. Of course while I'm out of town for 2 weeks and a chicken friend is watching my flock. Sick chicken is given vitamins, probiotics, and kept inside in my friends bathtub (she's a good friend) but died anyways.
2 weeks later, a hen develops really swollen and weepy eyes. Next day, another hen with same swelling. Looks like a red mini donut around her eyeball on both sides. Hard to the touch and not able to express anything out. Not an infection *in* the eye socket (I've seen those videos of people popping out yellow/white puss balls), but red and swollen around in the sinuses. Started Tylan inj. and they are acting ok, but swelling is still about the same after 5 or 6 days (I've lost track). They seem to be eating and drinking ok, but noticeably very thin.
Yesterday, noticed a rooster wheezing and sounding like he's got crud in his throat. No swelling around the eyes, but started him on antibiotics too. (I'm running out of isolation space). This morning, noticed that 2 of the 3 hens that were in with the wheezy rooster have swollen eyes now too, although not as swollen as the first 2 hens yet. So that's 5 sick birds currently from 2 separate pens. So about 75% of my birds have been directly exposed to a sick bird. And the others are all with 50 feet of those pens, even if they aren't attached, so likely exposed.
I have bad carpal tunnel in both hands and just had surgery on the first one, so drawing up the thick antibiotic and giving injections is literally torture for me. Giving that many injections is truly impossible for me and hubby is not able/willing to help-it's not his thing and that's fine most of the time.
I have also had almost complete drop off of egg laying from all my birds. It's been HOT here 100+ degrees and also they have started molting (feathers everywhere) so I contributed it to that. But now I'm wondering if sickness could be playing a part too and the others are sick but just not showing obvious signs. I picked up a couple of the more tame "healthy" hens and they definitely felt thin/light to me.
So I have some questions.
1) Should I treat my whole flock now since this appears to be spreading? Also water soluble antibiotics would be easier for me than many, many injections. While I hate to use antibiotics unless absolutely necessary, I'm leaning towards ordering powdered antibiotics that I can dose all the waterers with and try to treat any birds that are sick but not showing overt signs of it yet since they've all been exposed. Does that sound reasonable?
2) The "research" I've been doing and looking at all the various pictures makes me afraid that it may be something like MG or another organism where the birds will always be a carrier and may get sick in the future or may never lay well again. I breed and sell chicks and hatching eggs locally and I will not be able to do that if this is not something that will go away. I'm terrified that I will have to cull my whole flock and start over if I want to continue to be a small scale breeder, which I really enjoy. But I would NEVER knowingly sell sick birds. So even if I treat and they get better, I still won't really know what it was and if I'm potentially selling birds and/or chicks and hatching eggs from birds that are still carriers of a pathogen.
This is all statement...here's the questions. Could something cause these types of symptoms and not be a "cull your flock or never sell birds again" type of infection? Or do the symptoms point to a "nasty one" (for lack of a better term) even without testing?
3) How common is a "nasty" infection such as mycoplasma, coryza, etc where they may be carriers for life? I know just because there are photos all over the internet doesn't make it an everyday occurrence...
4) In the BYC forums, I found mention of Zoologix in California that will run PCR for 8 poultry respiratory pathogens (very sensitive testing). It would identify if any of these are present in the sample sent in (see description below). I am confidant I can do the tracheal swab by myself, but the test is $100 plus shipping and would only identify organisms, not provide recommendations for treatment (ie not a culture and sensitivity). It would definitively tell me if the pathogen is one of these 8 possibilities. But if it's not, then I'm left with no information (other than that it's NOT one of these). Since I am disabled at the moment without income, this would be a huge expense for me. But I'm willing to do it if it seems reasonable. Does this testing seem like overkill? Or does this seem like a valuable investment to you more experienced chicken keepers?
Poultry respiratory PCR panel - Poultry respiratory panel detects and differentiates eight clinically significant respiratory pathogens:
Avian influenza
Aspergillus fumigatus
Bordetella avium
Infectious bronchitis
Infectious laryngotracheitis
Infectious coryza
Ornithobacterium rhinotracheale
Mycoplasma gallisepticum
5) While my birds are not pets per se, they are loved and I would hate to lose them. But if the possibility is high that they have one of the "nasty" infections where they will be carriers for life and will infect any other birds they come into contact with, I wonder if the money for testing would be better spent toward purchasing quality replacement stock to start over. I'm really at a loss and I don't know what the best way is to proceed. But it's breaking my heart to keep losing birds and to see them get sick one by one. Any support/advice/etc. appreciated.
