Starting to get paranoid about using things like diatomaceous earth on my chickens :(

[ChookieG]

ME!!! I did!! WARNING: Long post.

I’m not sure where the idea that DE is a “chemical” came from. I guess in the broad sense that practically everything has some sort of chemical makeup, but DE is not a manufactured chemical. It’s just skeletons….tiny, ancient, microscopic skeletons with sharp points and edges. It’s those sharp points and edges that work against soft-bodied insects by piercing them so they basically dehydrate. Bees are also soft bodied insects, so contact with DE is just as dangerous to them as it is to the pests you’re really trying to kill. And it rips delicate mucus membranes to shreds. Oh, not dramatically, but little by little.

The sharp points on those microscopic skeletons can cause serious lung injury, not just to us but to our flocks as well. I used to swear by DE - from the time my first chicks went outside I used that stuff everywhere. It was in the litter, on the roosts, in the dust baths, even directly on a chicken if she seemed to be scratching a lot. When they started laying, I put it in the nests too. I did this for over a year.

Now, in the interests of full disclosure and before I explain why I say I believe I have been sickened by DE, I do have pre-existing lung and cardio issues. Those issues were just diagnosed the very year I got chickens. So back to the heavy use of DE…. Despite having it everywhere in the coop and run, I ended up with the worst and most persistent mite infestation you can imagine. Our yard is liberally dosed with trees, large old trees. Very large trees. That means lots of wild birds nest in them and use them to find food and shelter. And I believe THAT’S where the mites came from in the first place. There were just so many mites that the DE was rendered virtually useless. We treated the birds, cleaned out the coop and run, and put down more DE, once again spreading it everywhere. It did no good. But it was having an effect on my breathing. I was relying more and more on my nebulizer and fast acting inhalers. Was I allergic to my chickens? I didn’t know.

One day I went out to gather eggs and put more DE down. I was wearing a bandana over my face because the bag warns of respiratory dangers. I reached inside that bag for the cup we used to spread it and stopped dead. The words on the back of the back flashed in front of me…”Can cause respiratory distress”. Duh, DIane! What in the heck are you DOING?? That was the end of my reliance on DE. At my next pulmonary appointment two weeks later, when I told Dr. Rein that I seemed to need my breathing aids more than usual, she started asking about environmental changes. I mentioned the DE and asked if that could contribute. She gave me a resounding “yes”. She also said that even people with no pre-existing lung issues could pay dearly for continued use. AND THE DAMAGE IS IRREVERSIBLE. Pierced lung sacs do not regenerate.

I still had the issue of a coop and run full of DE to deal with. And we still had mites. So wearing respirators, hubby and I stripped that coop completely early one morning. We power washed it inside and out. (That’s fun with dirt floors!) We removed nests, feeders, roosts - anything that could come out did come out and those things were power washed as well. DE is ineffective when wet so it helped that the dust was kept down. Things dried out quickly in the hot sun. We mixed up a sprayer with Neem oil and a little dish soap (to help it stick on vertical surfaces) and sprayed every crack and crevice. We put just a thin layer of litter laced with Permethrin Dust down because we knew we’d have to remove it all in 10 days anyway. That night we dusted the birds with Permethrin Dust. I filled an old sock with it, grabbed each bird one by one off the roost, hung them upside down by their feet so their feathers were open - um, they protested this indignity - and pounced the dust onto them. Ten days later we repeated the entire process. We also sprayed Neem Oil on the bark of the trees close to the coop. After that I kept that old sock full of dust so at the first sign of mites I could take immediate action. We‘d gotten a handle on the mite issue, but the accelerated lung issues remain for me.

DE scares the pee-waddin’ out of me. And there’s another risk to using it - complacency. If we rely on a bag or bottle full of anything to prevent problems, we soon assume the problem won’t exist. “I’ll never have mites (or worms or lice in my coop because I always use _________ to prevent it”. We stop checking. And a few mites that could easily have been dealt with in a couple of treatments become a full blown infestation requiring weeks, or even months to eradicate. Mites exist. We’ll never totally eliminate them. But we can control them and control the effect they have on our flocks by being observant and proactive. They are not worth risking lung function over.

Like most of you guys, I would prefer to use less toxic alternatives if possible as it makes sense.. however despite having read several scientifically peer-reviewed research articles publishing the effectiveness of DE to eradicate mites (particularly red mites), I haven't found it effective in my experience. I'm not sure whether it's because of humidity - as one article states that high humidity decreases effectiveness. I have to agree that it doesn't seem to work as claimed... and on top of that.. it's not safe for the respiratory system based on experience:

Being aware that DE caused respiratory irritation, I covered my face with a regular cloth mask when using it but I still had a massive sore throat that lasted 3 days. It most likely was because DE particulates were too fine for a regular face mask to filter out so I used a N95 mask instead (rated for disposal of substances like asbestos). No sore throat after that.

Diamond has a hardness rating of 9, and DE a rating of 7.. so you can imagine what this stuff can do to your lungs!

DE however has a good mineral content that is beneficial for heath, so if you have food grade DE, it's best to just feed it to your chickens or use it in your smoothies/other food. There are some scientific literature claiming it eradicates internal parasites - but other research findings contradict that too .. so the jury is still out there. In my personal experience, I've fed my cat 1 dose of DE when I first got him from the pound and he purged serveral round worms the following day. A de-worming treatment by the vet several months later yielded no visible worms so maybe the stuff does work.

 

[rosemarythyme]

Oh, yikes!!!!!

Yuck yuck yuck yuck yuck yuck yuck

I change my mind. I love chemicals.

To be honest it was his fault - he would wear his pajamas out to the coop to say good night to the chickens, then after hugging them he'd wear the pjs to bed. All bugs find me tastier, so while I slept the mites would chew on me, and this repeated for weeks (until I was so paranoid I made an appointment to assess for bed bugs, as the bites looked identical) until one day hubby went, "Huh, I just came in from the coop and there's little bugs on my hand."

If nothing else I learned how to very thoroughly eradicate mites from the chickens, the coop, AND the house!

 

[raingarden]

If there is a parasite/disease problem and you know how to treat or avoid it, you would be foolish to not do it. But, being squeamish about using chemicals is a good thing. Your long term health is more important than chickens. There's a tried and true solution though.... break out the PPE. That does not mean putting the COVID mask back on. Get a proper HAZMAT suit and a good respirator. The full safety suit only costs 10 to 15 bucks and a chemical vapor respirator about 20 bucks. Oh, and the Nitrile gloves too.

 

[ChookieG]

To be honest it was his fault - he would wear his pajamas out to the coop to say good night to the chickens, then after hugging them he'd wear the pjs to bed.

OMG that's hilarious!!

And thoroughly grose! I love my chickens but I'm really scared of their poopee and knowing chickens, they can get em poop all over themselves.....

All bugs find me tastier, so while I slept the mites would chew on me, and this repeated for weeks (until I was so paranoid I made an appointment to assess for bed bugs, as the bites looked identical) until one day hubby went, "Huh, I just came in from the coop and there's little bugs on my hand."

 

[AGeese]

So, after revisiting some articles warning about the dangers of Diatomaceous Earth, and now I've successfully managed to freak myself out over chemicals that could make me sick.

Any reccomendations for things to prevent mites that won't kill
me in the future? This kind of stuff manages to freak me out a lot, so using better products would be more reassuring

You were just like me a couple months ago. Needless to say I am still alive right now. I guess it's more of a long term thing though so if you don't wear a mask, do. Otherwise DE doesn't seem to be the most effective in my opinion.

 

[ChookieG]

If there is a parasite/disease problem and you know how to treat or avoid it, you would be foolish to not do it. But, being squeamish about using chemicals is a good thing. Your long term health is more important than chickens. There's a tried and true solution though.... break out the PPE. That does not mean putting the COVID mask back on. Get a proper HAZMAT suit and a good respirator. The full safety suit only costs 10 to 15 bucks and a chemical vapor respirator about 20 bucks. Oh, and the Nitrile gloves too.

If you really have to get out a HAZMAT suit and respirator I wouldn't even consider using that chemical AT ALL!!

 

[saysfaa]

...Any reccomendations for things to prevent mites that won't kill
me in the future?

Whitewash

Although it may be a defense rather than a prevention. It works at least two ways: filling cracks to at least some degree (it fills much, much better than paint or stain) and it makes something about the surfaces not hospitable to mites... pH, if I remember correctly but it might be the chalkiness of it.

Full disclosure: I haven't whitwashed my coop yet. It took much longer than I expected to built the coop last summer and I just didn't get to it before it was too cold. I plan to this spring. I don't have personal experience with it yet other than seeing/touching it in dairy barns of people who had used it for decades. I also don't have a mite problem and my pullets are pretty low risk for them so I'm not sure how much I'll be able to tell about its effectiveness from personal experience anyway.

 

[CKfarm22]

I'd like to point out that this IS labeled for use on poultry and in the coop and it is half the price.
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/p...yhXK3WnEvml8VdL98jh4SxHhX6suyJwRoChC4QAvD_BwE


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Don't pay more for a different label.
Read l first

I get mine at the local feed store for half the price listed on amazon. Just showing a picture of what it looks like. Pen & Poultry you can use directly in birds too.

 

[Kiki]

I get mine at the local feed store for half the price listed on amazon. Just showing a picture of what it looks like. Pen & Poultry you can use directly in birds too.

Oh great!

 

[Vicker]

DE is not a chemical. It is not toxic if it does not have any additives. I use food grade. It can be ingested. I have used it for for going on 17 years with chickens and cats. I have not had one adverse experience with it. It works to keep flies off poop, dry up litter, kill fleas, kill mites, kill bedbugs in clients' homes. I use it in the garden. I mix it in feed. It is safe.