Strongly suspect Mareks: Looking for advice, support, success stories, and hugs

[AUtiger]

My 20 Week old Red Sex link pullet "Ginny Weasley" went lame on Thursday. She has very little use of her right leg. She is eating and drinking a little, but not enough. I am now tube feeding water. I have her in a small (2x4) chicken tractor in some nice wild violets and dandelion separated from the other ladies. Today, she seems a tiny bit better, no worse. Poop normal. She is able to hold her bad leg up a little and hop around rather than letting it buckle under her like she was at first. There never seemed to be an injury or wound. She is preening herself on one leg and resting quietly. She and her sisters (same age, multiple breeds) ARE vaccinated for Mareks. She gets fermented feed and has been getting vitamin water and scrambled eggs.

I am totally devastated after reading all I can for the last few days...terrified for all my other ladies. I have chosen to give her a week to show marked improvement or I am going to cull her. If she looks worse in the next few days I will end her misery sooner. She has lost some weight, but she is still fairly plump at this point.

I guess I'm just wondering if anyone has any success stories...any birds that have pulled through, or only losing single or a few birds versus total wipe out of everyone. I feel so hopeless....

 

[Kiki]

There are plenty of people here on BYC that have had chickens with Mareks.
Here is a recent case.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/mareks-im-so-confused.1184497/page-3#post-18758997

 

[eatbeef14]

I would keep her isolated from the flock because I do know mareks is highly contagious. I once had a hen that hurt her leg. I put her in a cat carrier to keep her from moving around and she healed in three days. If you're sure it's mareks I don't have a lot of experience with that. I hope she heals.

 

[Lady of McCamley]

Okay, here are my thoughts....

First don't panic. Do NOT assume this is Marek's and your flock is doomed, doomed, doomed.

Without a necropsy (which obviously you can't do on a live bird) there is NO way of knowing for certain if this is Marek's. The best you can do is make an educated guess without lab tests to rule out other possibilities.

In that line of thought...

I personally think Marek's is less likely in your RSL Ginny for these reasons:
1. RSL are bred to be Marek's resistant
2. She was vaccinated for Marek's (which does not offer full immunity but does help)
3. She is still able to lift the leg rather than have it drag behind or hang limply
4. No one else is exhibiting symptoms (but that is not a definitive test by any means but if you have 2 or 3 develop limping symptoms at the same time, that IS indicative)

There are other things that present with limping: Injury, vitamin deficiency, toxins, or some kind of muscular/skeletal defect. I will link the Great Marek's thread from BYC below that really discusses all the alternatives:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/the-great-big-giant-mareks-disease-faq.66077/

As to my own experiences, I have had 2 birds, my Barnevelder rooster and his daughter exhibit limping. For the rooster, he exhibited at about 16 weeks of age, limped for several weeks, then was completely whole. I attributed it to fishing line I found unfurled. No other exhibited symptoms.

His daughter, (RSL hen/Barnevelder) hatched about a year later, did the same thing though, at about the same age, on the same leg. Hmmmm. Attributed it to being just introduced to the flock and madly scurrying away as she was lower on the pecking order (I had witnessed that behavior). No others exhibited symptoms.

About a year later, I lost another of his daughters, a Cream Legbar (hen)/Barnevelder to suspicious behavior. She was fine, then one day hobbling on the ground unable to walk, flapping to move from one spot to the next in a classic Marek's behavior. She was about 10 to 12 weeks of age. We were having a heat wave so I hoped it was possibly lurking coccidia, as I had had symptoms of that in a prior chick batch in that coop, with dehydration, but no one else exhibited symptoms.

A winter passed, that coop was cleaned then left fallow with hard freezing cold for at least 4 months. I replaced my remaining broody bantam Cochin hen (the other was killed by a hawk during this time) with a purchased Silkie pullet (who had been first isolated in that coop before introducing my remaining bantam to her).

After 4 months, this Silkie pullet exhibited classic Marek's symptoms. She limped with drawn up limp leg that did not react to stimulation (weak gripping). Though very suspicious and classic, I hoped for lurking coccidia and/or parasite build up, I treated her for both (amprolium and Ivermectin). She rallied quickly and within a week was walking normally. I was breathing a sigh of relief several weeks later (even setting eggs under her coop mate) when I found her early one morning, about 3 weeks after initial symptoms had fully resolved, flapping her last torturous flaps in the run with twisted neck. She died before I could put her out of her misery.

I am now marking off the days to see if anyone else comes down with it considering my flock "closed" as no one is moving in or out. It has been about 4 1/2 weeks since her death.

This Silkie had help nanny 2 Cream Legbar chicks (which are now about 14 weeks of age) and I also have 2 mixed Barnevelder chicks that hatched just after her demise, all in that run together with the bantam Cochin who was her flock mate.

This brooding hutch has fence exposure to the flock for integration. I also have five 16 week old Barney mixes hatched in another coop but with dander and fence exposure.

To date, no one is showing any symptoms. I am hopeful that the Cochin is resistant. I purchased her as a young pullet from a turkey farm with resistance in mind (the vaccine is developed from the milder turkey virus, which almost all turkeys have...an old timer's trick was to raise turkeys with chickens to protect from Marek's). I am hopeful my 2 Barnevelder babes are resistant as I think the father may have exhibited a mild case and fully recovered. We will see about this strain of Cream Legbar from a different line, purchased breeder eggs (2 hatched of the 6 set).

All told? Marek's is an illusive disease. Its virus is morphing so that it can be mild or virulent. You can have different strains in the same flock.

As most BYC folk have mixed flocks of different breeds, often vaccinated, you likely won't see the flock wide devastation that can happen in large commercial flocks of a single heritage. (Sort of like the blight killing all the potatoes in Ireland as they were all the same strain of potatoes).

So even if your Ginny has Marek's, it is not a death sentence to the rest of the flock. Most literature I read says that Marek's is so prevalent in the environment that you must consider your flock exposed, which begs the thought that healthy resistant birds are not a risk to other healthy resistant birds.

Since the vaccination is "leaky," preventing the symptoms of Marek's but not the disease itself, many in the industry feel it is best to simply breed for resistance and are not recommending vaccinations any more to prevent a Super Marek's strain.

So Marek's is not the end of the world for your flock.

As to Ginny, my gut instincts tell me it is not likely Marek's. She does not want to use that leg rather than the leg is not usable. I suspicion injury or muscular/skeletal issues such as weak tendon groove or hip joint.

But time will tell. She may rally and be just fine. Keep TLC care up. What you are doing is very helpful.

Also add garlic in her food mash. If you are really attached to her, and you want a "Hail Mary" pass, put 2 tabs of 700 mg St. John's Wort 3% hypericum into her mash once a day for 5 days.

There is actual research which shows that St. John's Wort can help resolve viral diseases in chickens. The link below shows it being used for Infectious Bursal Disease and was injected rather than ingested which is different than tabs in food (but injection of pure hypericum is not something I am able to do), so I will go herbal tablets in mash. There is also a LOT of colloquial anecdotes about St. John's Wort and Marek's that shouldn't be taken seriously, one repeating BYC article is quoted again and again that shows no evidence of cure or even that Marek's was originally present.

But, if I have it, and it does strike (again) in my flock, I will resort to St.John's Wort to see if I can help those affected before culling.

I wish you the best for your little flock.
LofMc

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3384280/

 

[AUtiger]

Thanks so much everyone! I have read the "Big Giant" thread, and others. Hadn't seen the posts from rebrascora...those were helpful and comforting. I am hoping for injury, but she has no grip in that foot and no guarding at all when if feel around. It seems at least partial paralysis...Time will tell. I hope the fact that everyone was vaccinated will have some protection/lessen mortality. I love hearing success stories.

 

[AUtiger]

I also like hearing how people don't give up if they have a large scale loss. That is what I most fear...I lose everyone and my yard is "Forever tainted" "dead zone".

 

[Lady of McCamley]

Yes, @rebrascora posts are very encouraging. She is very helpful.

Literature states that the most mortalities/morbidities (death/infection) occurs 10 weeks after the first bird exhibits symptoms.

So the greatest impact happens within that 10 weeks to the flock.

After exposure, susceptible birds typically exhibit symptoms from 1 to 3 months after exposure.

So I am marking 4 months after the Marek's possibility before I relax a bit. While it would be *best* to do a necropsy, unfortunately in my state it would have cost me $100 to do so, and unfortunately, that is not money I have to spare at this time, especially since the necropsy doesn't always find the tumors. (Unfortunately on the day of death I didn't have time to do one myself....but there is a thread here on BYC for that...I think also rebrascora did one herself too.)

Keeping my fingers crossed for you.
LofMc

 

[Lady of McCamley]

I also like hearing how people don't give up if they have a large scale loss. That is what I most fear...I lose everyone and my yard is "Forever tainted" "dead zone".

I don't know where you live, but the Marek's virus, which can live in the environment for a long time, is also susceptible, like most viruses, to freezing temperatures.

It is carried in the dander, so you can clean out your coop and run, disposing of the litter.

I find Oxyclean (or any other hydrogen peroxide detergent) very helpful in both cleaning and disinfecting. I've found research that shows it at 33% concentration to be a good disinfectant. It also is good at lifting crusted on fecal material.

So a good clean out with freezing cold can go a long way to reduce the amount of virus that might be present in the environment.

However, wild birds, rodents, and other wild life will carry it back in, as will chickens who return...so you are back to simply choosing birds bred for resistance, keeping a mixed flock of breeds, and having some that are vaccinated to avoid a flock wide disaster.

LofMc

 

[AUtiger]

If I cull her, I am going to do a necropsy myself. My sister is a vet, so I will facetime her if I need help. I hate to think about it, because I love my girls, but I'ts always best to have as much info as you can.
And I have her about 20 feet away from the others...I know the virus spreads really far, but It's mostly too late anyway and she is much calmer since she can see and hear her friends. She goes in a box in the basement at night, since the tractor is not secure.

 

[AUtiger]

I do plan to rake out our straw litter from the open run tomorrow and add new. Everyone is molting, so it's full of feathers.

Should I burn it or throw it in my compost?

My coop is freshly whitewashed on the inside (with hydrated lime) and I do sand, in the bottom, so I'll clean that out and add more. Clean out nests (since she slept in there the first night since she couldn't roost)
I'm in East Tennessee, so we do have some good hard freezes, so that is good. If i lose everyone, I'll wait till spring and start over.