Summer scratch

[Chris09]

Not even worth it.

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Chris[/FONT]

 

[Chris09]

Where is Lazy J?
He has a PhD in livestock nutrition. Maybe he can clear things up.

Chris

 

[bucky52]

thank you,for that imformation i always give my chickens a little scratch in the mornings.we are up in the high 80'.so this morning i decided to not give them any scratch.they were following me around and squaking.it was if they were asking where is our scratch.

 

[Chris09]

But perhaps, chris, don't know or have fogotten that almost all animals (including chickens) do not stop eating when they meet their needs because when we evolved survival depended upon finding and eating everything possible while it was available and building up a winter storehouse of energy in fat. Chickens can and do overeat and can and do get fat.

Quote from omafra government Ontario Canada

Quote from Small-scale chicken production (publication was sponsored by the World's Poultry Science Association)

Thus, increasing the concentration of energy in the diet will result in a decrease in intake, and vice versa, as long as intake is not limited by problems of bulk, texture, inaccessibility or palatability. Levels of nutrients in a diet are therefore often stated in terms of energy content.

Quote from Merck Veterinary Manual

Now would you like to continue? I'm sure I can find much much more if you like.

I don't post unless I have the information to back it.


Chris

 

[idispatch4911]

I had heard the no corn scratch in summer also! So glad to know it's bunk. I thought it sounded strange, but I'm new to chickens and don't know much about them. Glad to know I can get more scratch for them, just use it sparingly so they eat the more nutritious options.

 

[Kikiriki]

http://www.ag.auburn.edu/~chibale/an12poultryfeeding.pdf

Chris, please read the paper in the link.  A table note includes the formula for figuring the caloric requirement.  Part of that formula is ambient temperature, which is multiplied by a standard and then SUBTRACTED: thus the higher the temperature, the lower the calorie intact that is needed.

Additionally, the paper cites the reasearch from 1992 that made the claim that chickens self adjust their nutrition, BUT it places a question mark after the statement!

The paper also provides the information that starter grower feed is more than 50% corn.  It states corn is important for the high calories it provides and discusses its importance as being a cheap food because it affects profit in factory conditions.

Research focuses on factory raised, fast growth, high finished weight broilers, 
http://philjournalsci.dost.gov.ph/vol135no1/pdf/feeding and economic evaluation of corn etc.pdf
or short life (not more than 2 years before being replaced) high egg production chickens so it is very difficult to find information on backyard or even heritage poultry.

The finisher diet is nearly all corn because it puts a layer of fat on the birds.  

Poultry:
http://japr.fass.org/content/6/3/290.full.pdf
http://www.k9-plus.co.uk/poultry/super-mixed-corn


Beef: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/05/100510151350.htm

Swine: http://jas.fass.org/content/82/2/571.full


If they are only eating to meet their survival requirements, and fat accumulates due to excess calorie intake, how are how they eating enough to put on fat?  

Because they, like every other animal on the earth, are designed to eat more than actual daily need as a mechanism to survive through times when food is lean!!!!!!!!!  

And finally, if no chicken is going to eat more than caloric need, how is it known that obesity in chickens contributes to prolaspe????  

(Please refer to this article in that manual you like to cite)

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/205811.htm&word=Egg,laying,prolapse


CHICKENS EAT ENOUGH TO GET FAT, or in other words they do not intake just enough calories to meet their needs!

In conclusion, I have supported that: 

Temperature change affects calorie requirements, with higher temperature reducing calorie requirements.  Increased calories increase weight.  Corn is a high calorie food.  Corn percentage in feed is specifically increased to add marbling in beef and fat layers in broilers and swine.  Chickens can get fat, and do get fat. Obesity is a health problem in chickens.

 

[Kikiriki]

Chris, I too have support everything I post.  You are not the only person here who knows how to research and read.  

I will continue to counter you because you are finding information but applying it incorrectly.  You fail to take into consideration the point of the nutrition research, which is not small private flocks or slow developing long life chickens.  Some research does cross that divide, such as digestibility and nutritional values of feed components, as well as nutrional needs if you are raising broilers or daily egg layers.  Some of that even can apply to heritage breeds and backyard flocks, but this is where one MUST start to consider the difference in the birds, their lifestyles, and the owners goals.

The research is focused on how to get the most out a factory chicken in the shortest possible time at the lowest possible cost in order to maximize profit.  The factories want fat on the birds they sell.  It adds weight more cheaply than adding protein (you pay for meat by total lbs, not lbs of protein), and it makes cooked meat more juicy because it prevents the meat from dying out during cooking. Additionally, chicken fat is another commidity sold for profit, so the chickens that do not make it to the dinner table or are sold precooked render fat that is sold for other uses, like going into pet and livestock feed.

You also fail to note that research takes place in a controlled environment, because it is a factor that affects outcome.  Research factors have to be controlled in order to be able to make statistical comparisons of data.
Further, factory production will maintain a reasonably well controlled environment in order to maximize production.  From Tyson's website:

http://www.tysonfoods.com/About-Tyson/Live-Production/Chicken.aspx

Growout

At Tyson Foods, we work with independent contract growers to raise the birds that go into our products. Approximately 6,800 farms across the country benefit from this working relationship. Growing chickens for Tyson is a stable source of income for family farms that would otherwise have to depend only on the financial ups and downs and unpredictability of other crops.
Tyson birds are raised in large houses that are designed to keep the birds as comfortable as possible. In the winter, thermostatically-controlled heaters keep the birds warm. In the summer, automatic fans and motor-driven curtains keep the air moving. Also, water misters overhead help keep the birds cool by using evaporation.
Automation also helps feed and water the chickens. Birds can drink from nipple drinkers that dispense water with a push of a button. Automatic feeders keep the specially-formulated feed coming when the birds begin to eat.
Everything here on the farm is designed with the quality of the final product in mind. Before houses are built, the soil is tested for contaminants. Each flock of birds is tested in a Tyson quality assurance laboratory for pesticide residue before processing.
Tyson takes animal well being very seriously. In fact, it is a key Tyson Core Value. Dr. Kellye Pfalzgraf, Tyson’s Director of Animal Well-Being, has the responsibility of creating and implementing programs to ensure animals are handled in a humane manner.
Four to six weeks after arriving on the farm, the chickens have reached processing weight and are ready to head to a Tyson processing facility, where the standards of quality continue.


End excerpt

 

[Kikiriki]

best overall info covering multiple factors:

http://www.poultrypro.com/poultry-a...feeding-programs-for-laying-hens-heat-stress/

Heat stress general information

http://www.heatstress.info/heatstressinfo/Zonesofcomfort/tabid/1231/Default.aspx

Link at the bottom for poultry

http://www.heatstress.info/heatstressinfo/ZoneofComfortBirds/tabid/1257/Default.aspx

http://www.southernstates.com/articles/poultry-care-heat-stress.aspx

http://en.engormix.com/MA-poultry-industry/genetic/articles/heat-stress-in-poultry-t1618/103-p0.htm

http://www.canadianpoultry.ca/heat_stress.htm

http://adlib.everysite.co.uk/resources/000/109/279/Poultry_heat_stress05.pdf

 

[Chris09]

Kikiriki,
May be you need reread the links you posted because most if not all that talk about energy in feed say the same thing I have been saying.
But agin you post links referring Beef and Pork nutrition, also the needs of a Broiler is also very much different than that of a average backyard layer.

As I stated before it not even worth my time posting to this any more.

 

[Kikiriki]

Well, all that aside, chickens shouldn't eat a big percentage of scratch anyway to knock out a portion of their layer feed.
You solve your perceived scratch issue by feeding a higher quality scratch year round, as I do, by using one like KnockOut Game Bird Feed, which is 12% protein, and has 11 grains in it.

This is what I use as scratch, day in, day out, year round:

That is a lovely well balanced mix! I will look for that as the scratch sold at my local feed store is 85% corn: most is cracked, some whole.