Temporary Breeding Pens Within the Coop

[Diavolicchio]

Quote:
I won't have any space behind the chicken house for runs, so the one solution I can envision would be to stack the breeding pens in the back of that 8' x 20' section, against the high wall, 2 over 2. I'm guessing they'd each be 4 feet or so in height. They'd be a little more work to manage (and to assemble/disassemble), but if I went this route I could have two runs that extend directly from the front of this part of the chicken house, where each group of 6 (1 rooster and 5 hens) could be escorted out into its own individual run, yet have no direct contact with any other chickens. If I've got two runs that are 4' x 12', and let 2 groups out every other day, this should be workable. It just won't be automatic. I'd have to escort each group to its private run individually, and then back in at the end of the day.

The chicken house would therefore end up with 4 individual runs: 1 for the hens; 1 for the roosters, and 2 smallers ones, each of which would accommodate a group of six chickens during breeding season.

Do you think this would work?



John

 

[Katy]

Quote:
Not sure what you mean "mandatory". You're getting input on what WORKS, from someone (Katy) who has a great deal of experience in this regard.

Pat,


Please don't jump to conclusions that I'm disregarding any advice that I'm being given by anyone. I'm simply asking questions and asking for clarification.

How can I know what WORKS, if that still hasn't been quantified? Katy has told me that the breeding pen size I'm going with is insufficient for the number of hens and roosters I thought I could comfortably accommodate. Great. Not a problem. I've learned something. That information is really helpful. I need a larger breeding pen, or fewer chickens within it. Got it. It's all good.

But I still haven't gotten any specifics about what WORKS; just that my plan currently DOESN'T. Do you follow?




John

If you're looking for a written down verified study of what I have found works for me, sorry I don't have that. I'm not quite sure what you want for specifics.

 

[patandchickens]

P.S. - insofar as space is the limiting factor for your temporary breeding pens, remember you can carve at least 1 or 2 of them out of your general-population "hen pen" if need be, as that is where the hens IN the breeding pens will presumably be coming from anyhow

Then you'd have access to subdividable run space.

(e.t.a. - P.P.S. -- this is getting really complicated and expensive-sounding. Unless this is all an abstract for-fun or classroom project, which I would *hope* not since it hasn't been billed that way, you'd really be a whole lot smarter to BUY SOME CHICKENS, just a dozen or so, and knock together temporary or convertable accommodations for them, keep them for a year, and get to know more about chickens. Not only is leaping right in with 75 chickens off the bat likely to lead to preventable problems and frustration and losses, but you will have a far, far better idea of how you want to build your large facilities once you have HAD some chickens for a while. Realio trulio. Sometimes faster is really slower

)

Just a thought,

Pat

 

[Diavolicchio]

Quote:
I appreciate the advice and will give it some serious consideration.

I'm still curious though how my proposed design is inconsistent with one of Woods' Open Air Poultry Houses. Care to elaborate?



John

 

[Katy]

Quote:
Pat I couldn't agree with you more. John....I know you don't want to hear that, but I think you would be better served in the long run to get some chicks....or get some hatching eggs from a couple of the breeds that you want and find out what it's really like to have chickens and get some hands on experiance. If you can see in person just how big those Brahma or Orp roos can get plus the hens you'll be able to see why I don't think that's enough space for them. Like she said get a dozen or so and get a feel for what 10 times that many chickens will be like.

Have you thought about grow out pens for the chicks you hatch? That's another issue.

 

[patandchickens]

Quote:
I did. See post #20, above.

Summary: if you mean the 40' side to be open, you've got way too wide an open chamber for your hen pen. If you mean the 20' left side to be open, you are obstructing airflow way too much. (e.t.a. - and can't keep the roosters penned in the 'front' there during the winter)


Pat

 

[Germaine_11.20]

MiniBeesKnees I am not good at visulizing this. Is there anyway to take a picture and post it. This sounds great and I would really like to try it but need to see it if possible.

If anyone can post pics that would be helpful, thanks!

 

[Ridgerunner]

Quote:
You seem to want to know why. Maybe this will help you. I wrote up some comments on space requirements on another post. I'll just copy them here. If some of it seems a bit "out of context", it was in direct response to another post. Some will not apply to your situation. These are my opinions based on experience, comments on here, reading other websites especially university/extension web sites, and some just from my convoluted logic.

I'm sure you know the difference in a rule of thumb versus a rule. And I see that I need to tweak this a bit. Something I should have emphasized a little more in my number 5 is that the 4 square feet assumes they will be locked inside the coop for an extended time due to weather or some other thing. How long that extended time can be will depend on several things; size, breed, flock makeup, individual personalities, etc.


As long as you have enough height for the roosts to be noticeably higher than the nest boxes, height does not matter to chickens. They are basically ground dwelling birds, so the ground area is all that really matters space wise. I said it does not matter to the chickens. It does matter to me if I have to work in there. It matters quite a bit.

If the nest boxes are high enough off the ground that the chickens can easily get under them, then nest boxes do not take away from the space available. The tops of the nesting boxes does not add to the living space either although they may occasionally be up there. Ground level is what counts.

Some of the things that make up the space requirement are, in my opinion:

1. Personal space for the birds. They have different personalities and different individual requirements. Some are very possessive of personal space and some can share.

2. Access to feeder and waterer. More than one at a time needs to get to the feeder especially, but access to the waterer is also important. Part of this is that they seem to like to all eat at once but part of it is that a dominant bird may keep others from eating or drinking, especially with limited access.

3. Being able to put the feeder and waterer where they will not poop in it when they roost.

4. Poop load. The larger area they have the less often you have to actively manage the poop. They poop a lot while on the roost so you may have to give that area special consideration, but mucking out the entire coop can be backbreaking work plus you have to have some place to put all that bedding and poop. In my opinion, totally cleaning out the coop is something that needs to happen as seldom as possible.

5. How often are they able to get out of the coop. The more they are confined to the coop, the larger the personal space needs to be. The normal recommendation on this forum is 4 square feet per full sized chicken with a minimum of 10 square feet of run per bird. This additional requirement outside is sometimes not mentioned. How often they are allowed out of the coop may depend on a lot more than just weather. Your work schedule, when you are able to turn them loose, what time of day you open the pop door to let them out or lock them up at night, all this and more enters into the equation.

6. Do you feed and water in the coop or outside. The more they are outside, the less pressure on the size of the coop.

7. The size of the chicken. Bantams require less room than full sized chickens. This has to be tempered by breed and the individual personalities. Some bantams can be more protective of personal space than others, but this is also true of full sized breeds.

8. The breed of the chicken. Some handle confinement better than others.

9. The number of chickens. The greater the number of chickens, the more personal space they can have if the square foot per chicken stays constant. Let me explain. Assume each chicken occupies 1 square foot of space. If you have two chickens and 4 square feet per chicken, the two chickens occupy 2 square feet, which leaves 6 square feet for them to explore. If you have ten chickens with 4 square feet per chicken, each chicken has 30 unoccupied square feet to explore. A greater number also can give more space to position the feeders and waterers properly in relation to the roosts and provide access. I’m not encouraging you to crowd your birds if you have a large number of them. I’m trying to say you are more likely to get in trouble with 4 square feet per chicken if you have very few chickens. Remember commercial operations still have to trim beaks when they crowd them although they may have 10,000 square feet or more available for the flock to explore.

10. What is your flock make-up. A flock with more than one rooster may be more peaceful if it has more space. I don't want to start the argument about number or roosters here as I know more than one rooster can often peacefully coexist with a flock, but I firmly believe more space helps.

11. What is the maximum number of chickens you will have. Consider hatching chicks or bringing in replacements. Look down the road a bit.

I'm sure I am missing several components, but the point I'm trying to make is that we all have different conditions. There is no magic number that suits us all. The 4 square feet in a coop with 10 square feet in the run is a good rule of thumb for a minimum that, most of the time, will keep us out of trouble, but not always. I do believe that more is better both in the coop and in they run.

 

[Diavolicchio]

Quote:
What supposedly makes Woods' open-front structures work is how the air DOES circulate, but in a circle vertically, and not so much horizontally. Their design is counter-intuitive. Have you read his book? Here's a layout of his 50' x 50' along with a diagram of how the air actually circulates:

Notice how much of it is open in the front:

Given that the main hen pen will be slightly wider than deep, I'll probably do what Woods did in the following design and drop in a wall that extends halfway from the back, offering more wall space for nesting boxes, and (I'm assuming) helping to keep the air moving vertically rather than horizontally:

John

 

[MiniBeesKnees]

rustywoman...I'll charge up the digital camera and try to take pictures.

Think of the shed looking down on it like a drawing would be. The four pens are in the corner and are D shaped with the flat part of the D being the wall of the coop. BUT instead of being perfect Ds, on the second flat side of the pen a foot of the wall is used. In other words I had an exposed stud four feet from the corner on one wall, and I have one a foot from the corner on the perpendicular (90 degree) wall.

I'm going to go with the nylon net idea to keep the chicks in the A frame chick pens...and to that end I just ordered nylon net six feet wide, and 40 yards long from Joann's website. With my half off coupon and including shipping it only cost me 26 bucks. That's a lot of coverage for that price.

Terry in TN