The American Cemani Breeders Club...open forum

[Pyxis]

Thank you for clearing that up! I looked over a couple of them this afternoon and it seems several DO have a "white" toenail, and the ones that do, it's always on their middle toe, and a couple of them also have discolored (peach-ish) skin on the underside of their toe near the nail.

Yep, the middle toenail is mostly where that defect shows up. Orange toes are another defect, and that can affect all the toes but again on the middle toe it seems to be the most common. Those I also consider culls and don't breed.

 

[bauerdog]

Have you noticed a correlation of white or clear nails to predominantly male chicks? Of the three hatches I have done so far, all imperfectly pigmented chicks have been male (I use leg bands to track them...). Obviously it is a very small scale study, but wondering if you possibly have noticed this as well.

Yep, the middle toenail is mostly where that defect shows up. Orange toes are another defect, and that can affect all the toes but again on the middle toe it seems to be the most common. Those I also consider culls and don't breed.

 

[Pyxis]

Have you noticed a correlation of white or clear nails to predominantly male chicks? Of the three hatches I have done so far, all imperfectly pigmented chicks have been male (I use leg bands to track them...). Obviously it is a very small scale study, but wondering if you possibly have noticed this as well.

You know, I actually haven't paid attention to genders with them because I often sell those chicks right away to pet homes, so I don't actually track them growing up, lol. That would be interesting if that was the case, though! Females do seem to have better fibro expression in general than males in this breed.

 

[ryan85]

I’ve been wanting to get some AC chicks or hatching eggs for awhile now and finally have room to add several. Where would be the best place to get them? Was going to order from GFF but after reading on here maybe that’s not the best place. I’d like to get the purest AC’s I can. Any help is appreciated.

 

[Ms Biddy]

I'm not a breeder yet and I don't have the best birds, but I did butcher an Ayam Cemani hen recently and was wondering if you want to see any pictures and know what I observed.

I haven't had anything to contribute to this thread but have read most of it with interest.

Ryan85, many people start with GFF birds and work their way up. Realistically, it takes time. In the buy/sell/auction section of this site you can also find chicks and eggs for sale. I found my birds on Craigslist. They're crosses from GFF, FLF, and TMA lines. You can breed those lines and select out some excellent birds, but mine were "economy" grade, lol.

 

[Tiegrsi]

I did butcher an Ayam Cemani hen recently and was wondering if you want to see any pictures and know what I observed.

I would be interested.

Also...I took pics of each chick today when I cleaned out their brooder bin. Is the earliest apparent sign of gender the difference in comb size? I have a couple who I am guessing are definitely boys; their combs seem to be growing faster and larger than the others. I've also noticed that some seem to have much thinner legs than others...perhaps those are girls? Beyond that, I'm just guessing that I've got 5 boys and 4 girls.

Middle toes on this one are clear and white. I'm guessing boy.

Chick # 1

• Tiegrsi
• Mar 20, 2018

Boy

Chick #2

• Tiegrsi
• Mar 20, 2018

Boy

Chick #3

• Tiegrsi
• Mar 20, 2018

Girl

Chick #4

• Tiegrsi
• Mar 20, 2018

Boy

Chick #5

• Tiegrsi
• Mar 20, 2018

Boy

Chick #6

• Tiegrsi
• Mar 20, 2018

Girl

Chick #7

• Tiegrsi
• Mar 20, 2018

#8

Seems to be the blackest, and has tiny legs. I am guessing Girl.

Chick #8

• Tiegrsi
• Mar 20, 2018

Girl

Chick #9

• Tiegrsi
• Mar 20, 2018

 

[Ms Biddy]

Yes, my male had the largest comb among the chicks. One of the hens has a somewhat large comb too. Otherwise I didn't see any noticeable differences. My male was the most boisterous and energetic of the group. He was always flying and challenging his peers.

Here's the hen I butchered. You can see that the melanistic pigment is darker at the extremities and lighter on the breast. Her head, neck and feet were darkest of all. I found that interesting. Internally her trachea, lungs and gizzard were black or black tinted, and all other organs were mostly normal in color. Under the skin, her breast meat is a light grayish pink and the neck meat is pretty dark blackish. I assume the meat in her wings and legs is an in between gray color but haven't looked closely yet. She had some yellow fat but because of the slight gray pigment it looks greenish. The photo of organs is a mix of two birds, but you can see her head, feet and neck pretty clearly.

Spoiler

 

[Tiegrsi]

I'm surprised to see that her organs were "normal" colored. I thought part of the interest of the breed was that their internal organs were also black. Admittedly, I am only in my first week of really learning about the breed, though. At least I have known for a while that all those photos of "Cemani Eggs" online are actually Cayuga duck eggs. Quack quack.

 

[Ms Biddy]

Most likely a better quality bird would be more black inside. On the exterior, she was a very black bird. All her toenails were black from the day one. However, she did have a white tongue. That's possibly an indicator of what's under the hood, although this is the only one I've butchered so far.

 

[Tiegrsi]

Hmm...
I didn't realise that the internal organs being a different color could be a factor with breeding, as well. I should have figured. When I considered breeding them, I thought about calling the local restaurants and possibly selling the black meat as a delicacy, or at least to those places that cater to tastes from that part of the world. I figured that would be my best bet as far as breeding went, since they are a breed where there is such a high cull rate - I figured that way I could raise as many as I wanted to find the best, and still make money from the culls...but if the culls aren't black inside, I don't think it would work out as well as I had envisioned.

At any rate, the chicks are terribly sweet and funny, and I am excited to watch them grow.