The American Cemani Breeders Club...open forum

[Pyxis]

I'm considering getting into AC's. They are so beautiful and I like the idea of supporting rare breeds. I'm looking for recommendations of where to get good quality, clean birds. Obviously Green Fire has them. But are there any other lines out there? I've heard of Feather Lovers Farm. Anybody know anything about them?

I have, and I tried to order from them once. It did not work out well. I'll see if I can dig up the writeup I did on my experience for you. Edit, found it: https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/trouble-with-feather-lovers-farm.1195562/#post-18911416

You're better off getting chicks from an established breeder. You'll pay less than you would from GFF or FLF and very well might get better quality birds.

Plus if you read back in this thread a little bit you'll see where FL is acting shady about the 'new' line they have and refuse to say where it's from. They may be illegally imported.

 

[goedric]

check out Rare Chicken Breeds Sell/Swap on facebook... there are some ACs there now... lots of options there for rare chicken breeds. I just hatched some blue birchin marans i bought off that site yesterday. Also goto http://www.rarebreedauctions.com as well greenfire sells on that and you can get stock much cheaper that their regular prices if you are patient. there are ACs there now as well. Best of luck!

 

[Dr.T]

Just got my first AC birds yesterday and got them settled in last night. Found a breeder in my state of IL and drove 2 hrs to get them yesterday. People around here think I’m nuts, lol! I saw the parents, beautiful roo and hens. Love the temperament of these juveniles already. Got them home and husband said “wow! They’re really black!” Love reading the posts in this thread and I have learned so much!

 

[Chickens4lifee]

I got 5 ac that where GFF lines and TM and I got the generation off those 2 my 5 consists of 4 girls 1 not boy and yesterday i got my first 2 eggs. What I want to find out is why one egg was blue and the same size and same place as the cream colord and also why do i have a 100% for sure pure bird that lays blue? I'm waiting for them to lay again today since the egg yesterday was frozen. No one was home and the only chicken I have that lays blue is a 10 yr old bantam that no longer lays and is in a whole different coop?? Can anyone help me???? Is this rare??? New???? She s 100%pure all black besides their mouths the girls are a real dark greay.

 

[Pyxis]

I got 5 ac that where GFF lines and TM and I got the generation off those 2 my 5 consists of 4 girls 1 not boy and yesterday i got my first 2 eggs. What I want to find out is why one egg was blue and the same size and same place as the cream colord and also why do i have a 100% for sure pure bird that lays blue? I'm waiting for them to lay again today since the egg yesterday was frozen. No one was home and the only chicken I have that lays blue is a 10 yr old bantam that no longer lays and is in a whole different coop?? Can anyone help me???? Is this rare??? New???? She s 100%pure all black besides their mouths the girls are a real dark greay.

If you have a bird that's laying blue, she's not pure. Something was mixed in at some point. There was a person posting on this very thread a little while ago that was insisting they had a purebred AC that lays blue eggs, but that's just not possible. That person was selling their eggs as purebred, too, but they of course are not.

The reason why I can say for sure that something was mixed in is because the blue egg gene was caused by a retrovirus that only certain birds in south america were affected by a long time ago. Those birds are the ancestors of breeds like the ameraucana and araucana which lay blue eggs today.

Ayam cemanis originated in Indonesia. Their ancestors are red and green junglefowl. A purebred one could never lay blue eggs because it would never have had ancestors that were exposed to the virus. So unless at some point along the way a blue egg laying breed was bred in, they cannot lay blue eggs.

A crossbred can look very much like a purebred in terms of how dark they are in just one generation. I have an AC cross hen that lays green eggs, and if she didn't have a pea comb you wouldn't know she was a cross aside from the green eggs. Now I have some of her babies, which are 75% AC and they will also lay green eggs, but some of them even have single combs. If I didn't know they were crossbreds because I had bred them myself, I'd never know until they start laying green eggs in the spring.

The only other possibility aside from your hen having had something crossed in at some point is that the blue egg didn't actually come from her and another hen of a blue egg laying breed layed it and you confused it for hers. That's really the only other thing that could happen.

Did you hatch these yourself or buy them already hatched from someone?

 

[Chickens4lifee]

I hatched these birds myself and they all came from cream eggs and the only other chicken that was with them was a polish hen but i took her out last week. the only hens in that coop are 4 cemani and 1 male cemani. the other egg looked just like the ones they came out of but this one was a very light tint of blue they all look exactly the same even the same as any you look up. the egg was the same color as the coop if that had anything to do with it possibly? the outside is the only painted part but maybe she got ahold of some paint chips?? she didn't lay yesterday who ever it was but im going to look today when i get home.

 

[Pyxis]

I don't think the coop color would have anything to do with it; if she did eat paint chips it should pass through her digestive system, not her reproductive system. Did you get the eggs from a breeder or were they from your own birds? If all the eggs you hatched were cream then that would mean if you really do have one laying blue eggs, the blue genetics came from the male. Did you eat the egg already? If not, could you post a picture?

 

[Ravynscroft]

I hatched these birds myself and they all came from cream eggs and the only other chicken that was with them was a polish hen but i took her out last week. the only hens in that coop are 4 cemani and 1 male cemani. the other egg looked just like the ones they came out of but this one was a very light tint of blue they all look exactly the same even the same as any you look up. the egg was the same color as the coop if that had anything to do with it possibly? the outside is the only painted part but maybe she got ahold of some paint chips?? she didn't lay yesterday who ever it was but im going to look today when i get home.

Paint chips would not affect egg color.... nothing can change the color of an egg a pullet or hen lays... the only factor that determines egg color is genetics...

I don't think the coop color would have anything to do with it; if she did eat paint chips it should pass through her digestive system, not her reproductive system. Did you get the eggs from a breeder or were they from your own birds? If all the eggs you hatched were cream then that would mean if you really do have one laying blue eggs, the blue genetics came from the male. Did you eat the egg already? If not, could you post a picture?

X2
I would be suspect that all would be crosses since a blue egg layer hatched from cream eggs...

Curious, how are you 100% certain they are true bred AC's?

 

[Chickens4lifee]

They came from 100% Pure GFF and TM lines. I have seen pics of where they where shipped in to him.They are the only large birds he breeds The rest are sebrights. And yes they all came from cream eggs all cream no diff shades just cream they all looked the same and I used to have a pic of the parents but I lost it. the reason I cant find out who it is laying is because they all look exactly the same and the only ways to tell the difference is by the colored leg bands on them. my rooster has a little mulberry in his wallets but that's normal considering i haven't been able to breed it out yet. so I want to know why she lays blue eggs? do i need to just sell her off as a pet or keep her and make a new line of my own? i have 2 incubators so I could easily hatch them separate and band blue egg chicks and not the cream? ill get a pic of the eggs when I get home tonight. dont you think if the father was a different breed i would have more color in my birds then black? because they are 100% black so thats why im so confused as to why i get blue eggs from 1 of them. 2 lay so far and 2 do not.

 

[Pyxis]

So you hatched these birds from eggs you got from that breeder?

Even if the breeder has pictures of the birds from GFF being shipped to them, GFF could have had an oops and had a rooster or hen slip its pen and a cross could have happened. And GFF doesn't have TMA lines so those birds didn't come from GFF and the person he got his TMA birds from could have had an 'oops'. And the breeder you got the eggs from may have no way to know this, since maybe only his rooster is a cross that carries the blue egg gene but otherwise looks like an AC.

The thing is, there's no way that an AC that didn't at some point have something that lays blue eggs bred into it is laying blue eggs. The blue egg gene, as I said, came from a retrovirus from south america. If that hen is truly laying blue eggs, that means that at some point her ancestors were crossed out to another breed. Could have been one generation ago, could have been ten.

I would not breed and pass that on. Those eggs should never get hatched unless you want to market the chicks as something other than ayam cemani, because they're not ayam cemani, they're (possibly high percentage) crosses that lay blue eggs. If you want to sell them as fibro EEs, that's fine, that's what I sell my green egg laying AC crosses as. But it would be disingenuous for me to sell them as ACs, just as it would be disingenuous to sell a bird laying blue eggs as an AC because true ACs lay cream eggs and nothing else. It would be like selling a bird that looks like an ameraucana but lays brown eggs as a purebred ameraucana.

And I would check to see what color eggs the hens that are produced by your hens that lay cream eggs are too, because maybe your male also carries the blue egg gene, and if so he might be passing it on to his offspring. If he carries the blue egg gene I wouldn't be breeding him either.

my rooster has a little mulberry in his wallets but that's normal considering i haven't been able to breed it out yet.

Have you been working with these guys for a couple generations now? Because you said you haven't been able to breed the mulberry out, so does that mean you've been breeding for a couple generations? Just wondering because I'm working under the assumption that you hatched these birds directly from eggs you got from a breeder, not eggs that a past generation of your own birds produced.

And yes, mulberry is totally normal, but you always want to select the birds with the best fibro expression to be your breeders. So as little mulberry as possible. Selecting the best birds each generation will lead to improvement in fibro expression each year