The bullying has to stop...children are dying

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There are several things I wish to address here....

First is depression and suicide. Yes suicide is a selfish act, from an outside point of view, but not from the point of view of the person who commits suicide. By the time depression is at a suicidal level, clear thinking has gone by the wayside. The only thing the person is feeling is that those around them will be better off without him/her. The world has closed in to the point where there don't seem to be any other options. They have internalized all the bad stuff, they feel that they contribute nothing to the world, that things will never get better and life has no point. This is a mental ILLNESS. Healthy people do not think this way. Add to this developing young teen, and you have a serious situation. Kids don't think like adults, their brains and personalities are not fully developed. They tend to have a very egocentric view of the world (how many people here have felt that their parent's divorce was somehow their fault), and that feeds into the depression.

Secondly, in this case and many like it, bullying is long term, pervasive, continual and tolerated. It is not a single incident on a bus, or with a single bully. It is groups of kids, constant sly comments, internet and phone messages, a pervasive view of the child being bullied as sinful, queer, a whore, a witch, a pagan, ghetto, skank or whatever. A classic example of this sort of bullying is the "class slut" who has the reputation of sleeping with the football team, and putting out for anyone. I bet every adult of a certain age can name who had this reputation at their school, and I'm sure the teachers could tell you who it was for any given year. There are quite a few things written on this label, and it is just that a label, and is almost always unearned. The girls are usually the ones who decide who gets this label, and the boys are there to make sure it keeps going with an "oh I had her, she's easy". This label then opens the girl for additional bullying from both girls and boys, with suggestive comments, physical contact, snide remarks etc. The internet only makes it faster. You might be able to fight back one kid, but this type of bullying involves large groups, often the kids who are most popular with peers and teachers. The bullying is subtle, easily hid from adult authority, and constant. It is a form of social enforcement of the hierarchy in schools. Punching a single kid out doesn't help, and in the scenario of the "fat, gay kid" doing the punching, it simply becomes another notch for the bullies...as in "did you see Sir Wimpy trying to hit Tyler, what a epithet here".

Thirdly, changing this sort of bullying isn't going to happen with a confrontation or a single intervention. It requires a change in attitude towards those who are different, and a change of culture where belittling someone for a perceived difference isn't tolerated. Where it isn't tolerated by adults, others seeing the bullying, the target and the bullies. it requires a climate where speaking out doesn't end in retaliation. Until the perception of the world as a place where men or boys who don't resort to physical confrontation are referred to as "girly men", or where sexual innuendo is tolerated, things won't change.
 
mom'sfolly :

There are several things I wish to address here....

First is depression and suicide. Yes suicide is a selfish act, from an outside point of view, but not from the point of view of the person who commits suicide. By the time depression is at a suicidal level, clear thinking has gone by the wayside. The only thing the person is feeling is that those around them will be better off without him/her. The world has closed in to the point where there don't seem to be any other options. They have internalized all the bad stuff, they feel that they contribute nothing to the world, that things will never get better and life has no point. This is a mental ILLNESS. Healthy people do not think this way. Add to this developing young teen, and you have a serious situation. Kids don't think like adults, their brains and personalities are not fully developed. They tend to have a very egocentric view of the world (how many people here have felt that their parent's divorce was somehow their fault), and that feeds into the depression.

Secondly, in this case and many like it, bullying is long term, pervasive, continual and tolerated. It is not a single incident on a bus, or with a single bully. It is groups of kids, constant sly comments, internet and phone messages, a pervasive view of the child being bullied as sinful, queer, a whore, a witch, a pagan, ghetto, skank or whatever. A classic example of this sort of bullying is the "class slut" who has the reputation of sleeping with the football team, and putting out for anyone. I bet every adult of a certain age can name who had this reputation at their school, and I'm sure the teachers could tell you who it was for any given year. There are quite a few things written on this label, and it is just that a label, and is almost always unearned. The girls are usually the ones who decide who gets this label, and the boys are there to make sure it keeps going with an "oh I had her, she's easy". This label then opens the girl for additional bullying from both girls and boys, with suggestive comments, physical contact, snide remarks etc. The internet only makes it faster. You might be able to fight back one kid, but this type of bullying involves large groups, often the kids who are most popular with peers and teachers. The bullying is subtle, easily hid from adult authority, and constant. It is a form of social enforcement of the hierarchy in schools. Punching a single kid out doesn't help, and in the scenario of the "fat, gay kid" doing the punching, it simply becomes another notch for the bullies...as in "did you see Sir Wimpy trying to hit Tyler, what a epithet here".

Thirdly, changing this sort of bullying isn't going to happen with a confrontation or a single intervention. It requires a change in attitude towards those who are different, and a change of culture where belittling someone for a perceived difference isn't tolerated. Where it isn't tolerated by adults, others seeing the bullying, the target and the bullies. it requires a climate where speaking out doesn't end in retaliation. Until the perception of the world as a place where men or boys who don't resort to physical confrontation are referred to as "girly men", or where sexual innuendo is tolerated, things won't change.

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well said as usual.​
 
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I agree. My response was directed at the post that the answer was putting religion back in school. I don't think that's the solution. And that's the end of my discussion on religion here.
 
Suggest a no chance system to your school. We have had hardly any bullying at our school because of it. ( a no chance system is if your caught bullying someone or get into a fight you are expelled and will have to go to another school.)
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mom'sfolly :

There are several things I wish to address here....

First is depression and suicide. Yes suicide is a selfish act, from an outside point of view, but not from the point of view of the person who commits suicide. By the time depression is at a suicidal level, clear thinking has gone by the wayside. The only thing the person is feeling is that those around them will be better off without him/her. The world has closed in to the point where there don't seem to be any other options. They have internalized all the bad stuff, they feel that they contribute nothing to the world, that things will never get better and life has no point. This is a mental ILLNESS. Healthy people do not think this way. Add to this developing young teen, and you have a serious situation. Kids don't think like adults, their brains and personalities are not fully developed. They tend to have a very egocentric view of the world (how many people here have felt that their parent's divorce was somehow their fault), and that feeds into the depression.

Secondly, in this case and many like it, bullying is long term, pervasive, continual and tolerated. It is not a single incident on a bus, or with a single bully. It is groups of kids, constant sly comments, internet and phone messages, a pervasive view of the child being bullied as sinful, queer, a whore, a witch, a pagan, ghetto, skank or whatever. A classic example of this sort of bullying is the "class slut" who has the reputation of sleeping with the football team, and putting out for anyone. I bet every adult of a certain age can name who had this reputation at their school, and I'm sure the teachers could tell you who it was for any given year. There are quite a few things written on this label, and it is just that a label, and is almost always unearned. The girls are usually the ones who decide who gets this label, and the boys are there to make sure it keeps going with an "oh I had her, she's easy". This label then opens the girl for additional bullying from both girls and boys, with suggestive comments, physical contact, snide remarks etc. The internet only makes it faster. You might be able to fight back one kid, but this type of bullying involves large groups, often the kids who are most popular with peers and teachers. The bullying is subtle, easily hid from adult authority, and constant. It is a form of social enforcement of the hierarchy in schools. Punching a single kid out doesn't help, and in the scenario of the "fat, gay kid" doing the punching, it simply becomes another notch for the bullies...as in "did you see Sir Wimpy trying to hit Tyler, what a epithet here".

Thirdly, changing this sort of bullying isn't going to happen with a confrontation or a single intervention. It requires a change in attitude towards those who are different, and a change of culture where belittling someone for a perceived difference isn't tolerated. Where it isn't tolerated by adults, others seeing the bullying, the target and the bullies. it requires a climate where speaking out doesn't end in retaliation. Until the perception of the world as a place where men or boys who don't resort to physical confrontation are referred to as "girly men", or where sexual innuendo is tolerated, things won't change.​
 
mom'sfolly :

There are several things I wish to address here....

First is depression and suicide. Yes suicide is a selfish act, from an outside point of view, but not from the point of view of the person who commits suicide. By the time depression is at a suicidal level, clear thinking has gone by the wayside. The only thing the person is feeling is that those around them will be better off without him/her. The world has closed in to the point where there don't seem to be any other options. They have internalized all the bad stuff, they feel that they contribute nothing to the world, that things will never get better and life has no point. This is a mental ILLNESS. Healthy people do not think this way. Add to this developing young teen, and you have a serious situation. Kids don't think like adults, their brains and personalities are not fully developed. They tend to have a very egocentric view of the world (how many people here have felt that their parent's divorce was somehow their fault), and that feeds into the depression.

Secondly, in this case and many like it, bullying is long term, pervasive, continual and tolerated. It is not a single incident on a bus, or with a single bully. It is groups of kids, constant sly comments, internet and phone messages, a pervasive view of the child being bullied as sinful, queer, a whore, a witch, a pagan, ghetto, skank or whatever. A classic example of this sort of bullying is the "class slut" who has the reputation of sleeping with the football team, and putting out for anyone. I bet every adult of a certain age can name who had this reputation at their school, and I'm sure the teachers could tell you who it was for any given year. There are quite a few things written on this label, and it is just that a label, and is almost always unearned. The girls are usually the ones who decide who gets this label, and the boys are there to make sure it keeps going with an "oh I had her, she's easy". This label then opens the girl for additional bullying from both girls and boys, with suggestive comments, physical contact, snide remarks etc. The internet only makes it faster. You might be able to fight back one kid, but this type of bullying involves large groups, often the kids who are most popular with peers and teachers. The bullying is subtle, easily hid from adult authority, and constant. It is a form of social enforcement of the hierarchy in schools. Punching a single kid out doesn't help, and in the scenario of the "fat, gay kid" doing the punching, it simply becomes another notch for the bullies...as in "did you see Sir Wimpy trying to hit Tyler, what a epithet here".

Thirdly, changing this sort of bullying isn't going to happen with a confrontation or a single intervention. It requires a change in attitude towards those who are different, and a change of culture where belittling someone for a perceived difference isn't tolerated. Where it isn't tolerated by adults, others seeing the bullying, the target and the bullies. it requires a climate where speaking out doesn't end in retaliation. Until the perception of the world as a place where men or boys who don't resort to physical confrontation are referred to as "girly men", or where sexual innuendo is tolerated, things won't change.

I was about to freak out lol good thing you said it's not selfish from that persons perspective​
 
mom'sfolly :

There are several things I wish to address here....

First is depression and suicide. Yes suicide is a selfish act, from an outside point of view, but not from the point of view of the person who commits suicide. By the time depression is at a suicidal level, clear thinking has gone by the wayside. The only thing the person is feeling is that those around them will be better off without him/her. The world has closed in to the point where there don't seem to be any other options. They have internalized all the bad stuff, they feel that they contribute nothing to the world, that things will never get better and life has no point. This is a mental ILLNESS. Healthy people do not think this way. Add to this developing young teen, and you have a serious situation. Kids don't think like adults, their brains and personalities are not fully developed. They tend to have a very egocentric view of the world (how many people here have felt that their parent's divorce was somehow their fault), and that feeds into the depression.

Secondly, in this case and many like it, bullying is long term, pervasive, continual and tolerated. It is not a single incident on a bus, or with a single bully. It is groups of kids, constant sly comments, internet and phone messages, a pervasive view of the child being bullied as sinful, queer, a whore, a witch, a pagan, ghetto, skank or whatever. A classic example of this sort of bullying is the "class slut" who has the reputation of sleeping with the football team, and putting out for anyone. I bet every adult of a certain age can name who had this reputation at their school, and I'm sure the teachers could tell you who it was for any given year. There are quite a few things written on this label, and it is just that a label, and is almost always unearned. The girls are usually the ones who decide who gets this label, and the boys are there to make sure it keeps going with an "oh I had her, she's easy". This label then opens the girl for additional bullying from both girls and boys, with suggestive comments, physical contact, snide remarks etc. The internet only makes it faster. You might be able to fight back one kid, but this type of bullying involves large groups, often the kids who are most popular with peers and teachers. The bullying is subtle, easily hid from adult authority, and constant. It is a form of social enforcement of the hierarchy in schools. Punching a single kid out doesn't help, and in the scenario of the "fat, gay kid" doing the punching, it simply becomes another notch for the bullies...as in "did you see Sir Wimpy trying to hit Tyler, what a epithet here".

Thirdly, changing this sort of bullying isn't going to happen with a confrontation or a single intervention. It requires a change in attitude towards those who are different, and a change of culture where belittling someone for a perceived difference isn't tolerated. Where it isn't tolerated by adults, others seeing the bullying, the target and the bullies. it requires a climate where speaking out doesn't end in retaliation. Until the perception of the world as a place where men or boys who don't resort to physical confrontation are referred to as "girly men", or where sexual innuendo is tolerated, things won't change.

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Well said.​
 
One of the things I think is interesting about depression and other mental illnesses is the number of people who are unwilling to see them as illnesses. They are perceived as some sort of weakness, or of not existing at all. A chemical imbalance in the brain is no different than a chemical balance caused by a thyroid disorder, diabetes or gout. Most people wouldn't hesitate to treat a bad thyroid or gout, but for some reason treating a brain disorder is seen as somehow weak or unneeded.

People suffering from depression don't think clearly, do not make decisions based on well reasoned choices and often do not realize that they are ill. The interesting things about perception, even the altered perception of mental illness, is we think what we see, feel, taste and smell is real. Telling a mentally ill person that their delusions are not real will be about as effective as telling a neurotypical person that a car is a bird. Telling a suicidal depressed person that it will get better just isn't enough.
 
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There was also a saying. "The family that prays together, stays together." So true, same with our country, we need to pray together as a country!

My family does not pray and we are together,been with my husband for 18 years.That being said lets keep religion out of this since it just winds up with thread being closed.

I didn't say "Only", but in school, there needs to be the freedom to pray, and the displaying of the Ten commandments.
 
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Without reading the individual articles I feel pretty confident to say that if they were Christain, Catholic, or any bible based faith they weren't really following the bible. The bible doesn't teach hatred or ignorance and that type of statement is.

I'm not going to debate religion (because it will shut the thread down), but people can find whatever they want in that book -- good or bad, there are plenty of references either way (including their opinion and yours). But that's not the point.

A child killed himself because he couldn't take the harassment anymore, and thought things wouldn't get better.

That's the point.

SarahBeth9394 has a completly correct point there! The harassment is not from christians, but God-less kids. Your points have little or no proving ground.
 
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