The EE braggers thread!!!

[SD Bird Lady]

just dont post this on the Ameraucana thread. There is much angry debate wether a Ameraucana to a Ameraucana cross or a Ameraucana that doest not meet standard is actually called a a Non Standard Ameraucana , Project Ameraucana or easter egger. I wonder if they have any idea how bad it makes the breed look to novice ameraucana fans or newbies.
When people on the thread can not even decide.

Chickens is the first time I have ever even heard this debated. If you breed a Dalmation to a Dalmation and get one who is pure black it is still a Dalmation it is just not standard. It would be DQ'd and not used for breeding purposes. Same with cattle. Herford to Herford but turns out say tall & thin....still Herford just not standard. The fact this needs to be debated just blows my mind.

On a different but related topic, is the breeders who preach about not getting hatchery birds as they are trying to improve the breed. That is great but don't turn around and say you sell off all of the stock that dont make the grade as pet quality. All those people who now have your lower quality birds are going to breed them and say hey I got them from show lines look at these when in reality they are utility fowl. In other animals if you are striving to improve genetics. Stock that is not "breeder quality" is sold fixed (dogs) or not sold at all and slaughtered (cattle).

Since I am ranting here is another one. It doens't matter how perfect an animal is. If it cannot reproduce the line ends there. This is happening in bull dogs. They are basically unsustainable b/c without human involvement all the females would die giving birth. Same with some strains of Cochin that are too fluffy for fertile eggs (again w/o assistance). Double breasted turkeys..unsustainable. They serve their purpose but when is enough enough?

 

[Gifa]

just dont post this on the Ameraucana thread. There is much angry debate wether a Ameraucana to a Ameraucana cross or a Ameraucana that doest not meet standard is actually called a a Non Standard Ameraucana , Project Ameraucana or easter egger. I wonder if they have any idea how bad it makes the breed look to novice ameraucana fans or newbies.
When people on the thread can not even decide.
I have had Ameraucana's from different sources and honestly all the eggs are blueish green tinted that I have seen. My blue ameraucana I have now lays a Green egg.

Yep. One of the other things that makes a breed a breed, is the ability to breed true... There seems to be much variation in Ameraucanas even within their own color phenotypes, that I think the breed is still has a long way to go in development.

And I think to become enraged about this topic is a bit silly. I kind of like how in this thread, we can have a civil discussion about the differences, the sticking points, and the interpretations of the standards without going for each other's throats. That said, you will note that in my original response I not only tipped my hat at the more hardcore enthusiasts/breeders, I also did not say that my post was an end all be all description... "more or less".

 

[Outrun Acres]

Chickens is the first time I have ever even heard this debated. If you breed a Dalmation to a Dalmation and get one who is pure black it is still a Dalmation it is just not standard. It would be DQ'd and not used for breeding purposes. Same with cattle. Herford to Herford but turns out say tall & thin....still Herford just not standard. The fact this needs to be debated just blows my mind.

On a different but related topic, is the breeders who preach about not getting hatchery birds as they are trying to improve the breed. That is great but don't turn around and say you sell off all of the stock that dont make the grade as pet quality. All those people who now have your lower quality birds are going to breed them and say hey I got them from show lines look at these when in reality they are utility fowl. In other animals if you are striving to improve genetics. Stock that is not "breeder quality" is sold fixed (dogs) or not sold at all and slaughtered (cattle).

Since I am ranting here is another one. It doens't matter how perfect an animal is. If it cannot reproduce the line ends there. This is happening in bull dogs. They are basically unsustainable b/c without human involvement all the females would die giving birth. Same with some strains of Cochin that are too fluffy for fertile eggs (again w/o assistance). Double breasted turkeys..unsustainable. They serve their purpose but when is enough enough?

I really enjoyed everything you wrote in your post. I posted this same argument on the Ameraucana thread, it was not well received at all. I don't know how you can breed a standard Ameraucana to another standard Ameraucana and get offspring that could be considered an entirely different breed. I believe they should be considered as you stated, non-standard Ameraucanas. I used the example of Appaloosa horses that give limited registration to horses who don't visually have any of the breeds color traits. I voiced my thoughts, opinions and questions in an educated and unemotional manner, truly wishing to get some answers. I received some of the rudest responses from the subscribers on that thread. I also received some comments from like minded people. I just couldn't believe the uproar it caused, just because I had questions about the breed. I was told by another subscriber that if I wasn't going to play by the "rules" I shouldn't post comments on that thread. It was very unwelcoming and I think I am going to steer clear of the breed altogether.

EE's, even though they technically aren't a breed seem to be the way to go if you are backyard poultry owner and want some colorful eggs. At our local feed store the Ameraucana (EE) chicks were twice the size of all the other chicks their age. They seem to have great hybrid vigor, and no fertility problems. I'm not trying to "knock" the purebred breeders, but some of the "purebred" chickens we have owned have been terrible. We had a Salmon Faverolle just drop dead for no apparent reason. All of our other chickens were fine and remained so. We just had a Cuckoo Maran chick drop dead. All of the other chicks were thriving. We have some crossbred chicks (columbian wyandotte x buff orpington) who are absolutely thriving and growing like weeds. I just wish people would keep the goals of their breeding program in perspective. If things aren't adding up when it comes to the standard for a particular breed, I don't think there is anything wrong with questioning the SOP, especially for breed standards that are relatively "young." When did we as a society become a bunch of mindless, follow-the-leader drones? OK, my Saturday morning rant is over. I will be hiding under my chair while the stones are cast.

 

[Hangtown Farms]

Yep. One of the other things that makes a breed a breed, is the ability to breed true... There seems to be much variation in Ameraucanas even within their own color phenotypes, that I think the breed is still has a long way to go in development.

And I think to become enraged about this topic is a bit silly. I kind of like how in this thread, we can have a civil discussion about the differences, the sticking points, and the interpretations of the standards without going for each other's throats. That said, you will note that in my original response I not only tipped my hat at the more hardcore enthusiasts/breeders, I also did not say that my post was an end all be all description... "more or less".

Lol I hear you. Was just trying to warn you if you did decide to post there.
There Thread states. Ameraucana Thread for posting pictures and discussing our birds.
It should say Ameraucana Thread for birds that meet standard.
I am ok with what they want to cal it either way. Where the confusing part comes in for new people or people who do not know better and my point was in the Ameraucana thread.

Some Ameraucana breeders calling there birds non standard or project if they do not meet the breed standard requirement. Some calling the Easter Eggers. ( I honestly prefer the term project if you are in fact trying to breed a new variety or easter egger.)
My reason's
Hatcherys call there birds non standard Americana ( this confuses the heck out of people and is the main problem)
so now you see people selling easter eggers all over the place as ameraucana and if you say anything you get bombarded with rants, and insults. They may say these are true ameraucana they just are not standard or whatever they come up with and honestly they may not even know that there birds are easter eggers.

I would just like to see a more uniform description on birds that do not meet standard and I think that would go a long way.
However if they say Non standard then they are going to have the same easter egger debat day in and day out.
Just my two cents.

 

[Gifa]

I really enjoyed everything you wrote in your post. I posted this same argument on the Ameraucana thread, it was not well received at all. I don't know how you can breed a standard Ameraucana to another standard Ameraucana and get offspring that could be considered an entirely different breed. I believe they should be considered as you stated, non-standard Ameraucanas. I used the example of Appaloosa horses that give limited registration to horses who don't visually have any of the breeds color traits. I voiced my thoughts, opinions and questions in an educated and unemotional manner, truly wishing to get some answers. I received some of the rudest responses from the subscribers on that thread. I also received some comments from like minded people. I just couldn't believe the uproar it caused, just because I had questions about the breed. I was told by another subscriber that if I wasn't going to play by the "rules" I shouldn't post comments on that thread. It was very unwelcoming and I think I am going to steer clear of the breed altogether.

EE's, even though they technically aren't a breed seem to be the way to go if you are backyard poultry owner and want some colorful eggs. At our local feed store the Ameraucana (EE) chicks were twice the size of all the other chicks their age. They seem to have great hybrid vigor, and no fertility problems. I'm not trying to "knock" the purebred breeders, but some of the "purebred" chickens we have owned have been terrible. We had a Salmon Faverolle just drop dead for no apparent reason. All of our other chickens were fine and remained so. We just had a Cuckoo Maran chick drop dead. All of the other chicks were thriving. We have some crossbred chicks (columbian wyandotte x buff orpington) who are absolutely thriving and growing like weeds. I just wish people would keep the goals of their breeding program in perspective. If things aren't adding up when it comes to the standard for a particular breed, I don't think there is anything wrong with questioning the SOP, especially for breed standards that are relatively "young." When did we as a society become a bunch of mindless, follow-the-leader drones? OK, my Saturday morning rant is over. I will be hiding under my chair while the stones are cast.

This pretty much echoes my personal feelings and opinions on the matter. I think we're going to need a bigger chair.

 

[SD Bird Lady]

I will admit when I got my first batch of chickens i got all the same b/c I didn't want a bunch of "mixes" running around. Now on only my second year with chickens I decided it is the variety that is fun. I am going more the way of utility chickens. I know what I like and so will choose to hatch eggs according to what I personally want. Hopefully it will be a fun project and in the end I will have some very sturdy and productive chickens. Also looking forward to a colorful basket as I have a few EE's to throw in the mix now. All I need is white eggs but all the white egg breeds seem the be the opposite of what I am looking for as far as being laid back and sturdy.

 

[Hangtown Farms]

I will admit when I got my first batch of chickens i got all the same b/c I didn't want a bunch of "mixes" running around. Now on only my second year with chickens I decided it is the variety that is fun. I am going more the way of utility chickens. I know what I like and so will choose to hatch eggs according to what I personally want. Hopefully it will be a fun project and in the end I will have some very sturdy and productive chickens. Also looking forward to a colorful basket as I have a few EE's to throw in the mix now. All I need is white eggs but all the white egg breeds seem the be the opposite of what I am looking for as far as being laid back and sturdy.

maybe look at sweedish flower hens they do not seem to be too bad and are cold hardy

 

[seventreesfarm]

Good points about non-standard Ameraucanas.
I always thought it was odd to call it a different breed just because of being non-standard

We got EE's just to add some color to our egg basket, but they are def 'hatchery quality'. I'm waiting to see what my blue-butts lay before selling the 4 EE's I have left. If the BB's lay olive eggs, I'll trap nest the EE's to see who laid the big green eggs that hatched the BB's, and keep her. But otherwise I'm selling them asap. I'm pretty sure 2 are laying brown eggs.

The feather color surprises are pretty cool though. So many patterns!
I ordered the chicken color genetics book from the Netherlands (bye bye tax return) and can't wait to have the proper genetic codes to plug into the chicken calculator

 

[Manningjw]

I posted this same argument on the Ameraucana thread, it was not well received at all. ... I was told by another subscriber that if I wasn't going to play by the "rules" I shouldn't post comments on that thread. It was very unwelcoming and I think I am going to steer clear of the breed altogether.

You are not the first and most certainly will not be the last to have to deal with the venom from people within that thread. The idea that Ameraucanas are a pure breed in itself is... interesting.

Recently I have really wanted to get an Ameraucana simply to breed it to a pearl white leghorn to produce a highly productive blue egg layer - I will be sure not to post it in the Ameraucana thread

. It seems you gamble even with birds sold as Ameraucanas that they may have some brown egg genes within them even though they shouldn't. Not entirely surprising though given the breed history.

 

[flower]

You are not the first and most certainly will not be the last to have to deal with the venom from people within that thread. The idea that Ameraucanas are a pure breed in itself is... interesting.

Recently I have really wanted to get an Ameraucana simply to breed it to a pearl white leghorn to produce a highly productive blue egg layer - I will be sure not to post it in the Ameraucana thread

. It seems you gamble even with birds sold as Ameraucanas that they may have some brown egg genes within them even though they shouldn't. Not entirely surprising though given the breed history.

There are two threads that I know longer frequent and the other is the Marans because they also take themselves much too seriously. Life is too short for spewing venom.