The Evolution of Atlas: A Breeding (and Chat) Thread

[speckledhen]

Check out what's going on with my younger (well, he's almost 8) Belgian D'Anver rooster, Spike. The video is just over 10 minutes, but there are time stamps at 5:12 and 9:50 with specific things I wanted people to see besides his general demeanor and way he's moving now . Any ideas what the heck is the deal with him? He can't drink without throwing his head backward and touching his back, even losing his balance and he is walking and lurching his neck forward oddly when he does. Plus, he is having difficulting picking up food as you can see at 5:12. But he's crowing still so not sure what happened to poor Spike. There is more story to it than those time stamps in the video, but if you want to skip to those sections for expediency's sake, I put them up here. Did he have a stroke? Something else? Seems neurological, but I'm not expert on this stuff. Carly did have those intense seizures a couple of years back, if you recall, and we had to euthanize her.

 

[1muttsfan]

Well that was certainly very interesting. I would agree that it looks like there's something neurological going on. He appears a little hypermetric - that is, his movements are exaggerated. Both that and the head stretching backwards like that (which is called opisthotonus) are signs associated with the cerebellum (brainstem). think of the exaggerated movements of someone with Parkinson's disease.
There are, unfortunately, a multitude of different possible diagnoses including tumors, stroke, infection, and parasites. In older animals tumors become a bigger concern. It would probably be very difficult and costly to rule out exactly what is causing his signs.
If Aubrey picks on him too much you may have to consider separating him, maybe with a girlfriend or two. And all likelihood he will start having trouble making it to a perch on his own, or being able to stay there once he is on a roost. He is already having difficulty picking up his food, but being unable to drink is a bigger concern.
My goodness Cyn it seems so unfair for you, even though those little packing peanuts are mostly ornamental they are still quite sweet.

 

[speckledhen]

Thank you, Mary, for that analysis, so appreciated. It seems the more I know about a situation with my birds, the more it's plain I am helpless to really help.
His movements are definitely exaggerated-I'm glad that showed on the video, which is one reason I taped so long, to give a good picture of what's happening with him. I'm no expert, of course, but I thought of stroke, tumor and even parasites, though I have looked them all over frequently and have found no visible mites or anything like that. I can dose them with pour on Invermectin today, just in case, but that is probably the least likely scenario with him.
Unfortunately, separating him out is hard. There are only three hens in there. I'd have to take one for him and leave Aubrey with two. He does take awhile to fly up to the roost; he roams back and forth looking up there before he finally flies up; seems to almost be dizzy when he looks up. Tom put a board behind the 3" wide roost so they have an actual platform once he gets up there. I'd put him up there myself every night, but he freaks out if I reach for him and ends up running and in a heap on the floor with his head tucked under his chest. Once he even did a somersault over his head when I was trying to catch him. Stressing brings on a "spell". That is one reason I hate having roosters I can't handle as easily as I can Bash and Atlas. Even Hector doesn't freak out that badly when I pick him up. He just struggles a lot, but I can at least calm Hector down. If Spike cannot eat or drink, of course, we'll have to euthanize him as we did with poor little Carly. I haven't seen an actual seizure with Spike like happened with Carly repeatedly, but if he ceases to be able to get sustenance, definitely time to act. He sure is trying still. And you saw him crow at the end if you watched that far. Goofy little man.

Mary, I am going to pass on these few tidbits on my channel, if you don't mind, just some information for other chicken owners to put in their knowledge arsenal. So many things are not in books (like most everything that happens to me, argh) on chicken keeping. Experience and knowledge combine to at least give comfort to others who see this sometimes alarming stuff.

 

[1muttsfan]

He still looks very spunky! He may be eating the feed better than the grains, it is probably easier for him to pick up.

The tremors in cerebellar disease are called Intention Tremors, meaning they occur when you try to do something - so irritating - and not much when you are at rest.

 

[speckledhen]

Yeah, that stress really does nasty things to the poor guy. He is pretty spunky still, for sure. Awhile back, we put a rabbit feeder hanging on the fencing right by where he roosts and where I used to feed him by hand through the fence so his daddy would leave him alone at goodie time. I have my 22% and 16% layer mini-pellets mixed with the 13 grain cock conditioner so he has a pile of food to eat from, as well as the PVC feeder trough. He doesn't have to aim at anything, just peck and he can't help but get something in his beak.

I have their 3 gallon waterer on a concrete block in their pen, but it is higher than he may be easily able to drink from in this condition so, at Tom's suggestion, this morning we put a 1 gallon waterer on a low platform in a different location to maybe make it easier for him. He was drinking from it and threw his head back, but not as bad as you saw in the video. So, for now, he's still functioning, but I fear this will progress and we'll have to make a decision for him.

I did worm everyone with Invermection pour-on today, just in case. Next time, I'll do Valbazen, but this should get any external pests that I didn't see, if there are any. Spike is known for his monumental dustbaths, but not sure how much he's been doing that in the past two weeks.

 

[1muttsfan]

Ivermectin will get most migrating larval worms. If central nervous system issues are caused by parasites, they unfortunately tend to be things like histoplasma, sarcocystis and toxoplasma, which require special medications. And seem unlikely in your setup.

 

[speckledhen]

Ivermectin will get most migrating larval worms. If central nervous system issues are caused by parasites, they unfortunately tend to be things like histoplasma, sarcocystis and toxoplasma, which require special medications. And seem unlikely in your setup.

Good to know. I am aware that Invermectin is not the most widely effective wormer for many internal parasites, or it hasn't been in my flocks. Valbazen is touted to be much better for internals, overall, but won't kill any externals. But sounds like neither would do anything for those conditions. Are the special meds by prescription types or just different ones that can be purchased at the feed store? I think sarcocytis is from cat or dog feces, but no dogs are here and the cat, well, he generally poops in places the bantams never go-they hang around the house if I even let them out of the pen so probably not that. Honestly, my gut says what is wrong with Spike is not something caused by parasites, but anything is possible, of course. Histoplasma is fungal and so is toxoplasmosis, right, from ingesting oocysts?

Adding that I looked up a medication for sarcocytis, which can also come from possum droppings. Those critters regularly are around the house, though I have not seen any droppings where the bantams hang out there. The med they mentioned is a thiamine blocker like Corid. Would Corid have any effect if that is the issue with Spike? I know it's probably a long shot and maybe it is the wrong type of thiamine antagonist, but I have liquid Corid here. I hate to do shotgun approaches, though. And no other birds in his pen have that issue, or any others in any other groups, just him. Sorry for all the questions, just trying to learn some stuff for future reference! I appreciate you answering all of this because I know you're busy!

 

[h2oratt]

I don’t know enough about chickens to comment on him. I am glad I able to take my chickens in to get necropsy at a reasonable price. Fascinating. I wish I had the time and years to learn how to do my own. I am working on doing my own fecals right now.

 

[1muttsfan]

You can certainly try it. Toxoplasma is actually a parasite, not fungal. And you can get an individual affected without necessarily seeing it in a whole group.

I am working on doing my own fecals right now.

Practice makes perfect!

 

[speckledhen]

You can certainly try it. Toxoplasma is actually a parasite, not fungal. And you can get an individual affected without necessarily seeing it in a whole group.


Practice makes perfect!

Yeah, when I said it, I thought, no wait, that's not right. I may put Corid in his 1 gallon waterer. Can't hurt the others who drink it, so why not?