The Health Care Law.

[rebelcowboysnb]

Take my ball an go home is not in our nature any more. Take over an change the rules is more likely now.

 

[Stephanie739]

They were called communes back in the 60's and 70's. The problem is that human nature simply cannot be overcome. Some people see themselves as worthy of a position of power, and think their supposed skills at organizing and motivation are superior to some one who is happy just producing day in and day out.Soon, they demand a bigger piece of the pie. The largest lot on the cul de sac, the prime parking spot, so that they don't get pine sap on their newly aquired Prius, on and on, Next thing you know, they are incorporating for some political advantage over the commune down the road.

Why so many excuses? Many communes work very well. The Mormon communes are great examples from what I know of them. Those children are well behaved too. Work is made into playtime, i.e milk the cow, ride the tractor, etc...

 

[RHRanch]

They were called communes back in the 60's and 70's. The problem is that human nature simply cannot be overcome. Some people see themselves as worthy of a position of power, and think their supposed skills at organizing and motivation are superior to some one who is happy just producing day in and day out.Soon, they demand a bigger piece of the pie. The largest lot on the cul de sac, the prime parking spot, so that they don't get pine sap on their newly aquired Prius, on and on, Next thing you know, they are incorporating for some political advantage over the commune down the road.

No, this is a housing project that has a community garden. It's not a commune. Not even close, and you arte stereotyping the poor again. One of the things I am always amused by as a sociologist is that we have tons of experience studying, interviewing and working with the poor (often in community programs), so we have more personal experience with individual poor people than the typical layperson, but when I tell you that your description of the poor is not backed up by research and facts gathered about them, you ignore me. I have not met many poor people who like it, who stay on welfare long term, etc., in the way most people stereotype them. Most poor people use welfare, community housing, etcs as stepping stones to independence... They get housing when their children are toddlers and while they go to school. They get jobs, they save and generally they do thier best to try to get out of poverty or at least support themselves. Human nature is not geared to live in a tiny low income apartment on a tight budget. Most people find this an uncomfortable way to live. There are some exceptions, but they are just exceptions. They can be dealt with if we get more welfare fraud oversite.

 

[Stephanie739]

Did you know the first Libertarian slogan was "no such thing as a free lunch"

Even the bible says those who do not work, should not eat.

 

[RHRanch]

Did you know the first Libertarian slogan was "no such thing as a free lunch"

Even the bible says those who do not work, should not eat.

And yet our welfare system actually discourages work! The program does not encourage people to get work, because often the types of jobs they get (minimum wage or part time or both) usually are not enough to live on, so if a person on welfare does work or try to work and makes too much money, they loose thier benefits and could become homeless and then probably loose the new job. (LOL) What our system should do is allow work and not cut off all benefits automatically. They should cut it off slowly with working being part of the welfare process (unless children are very young) as a supplement, on a case by case basis. Our welfare system encourages dependence by not supporting efforts towards independence.

 

[Royd]

Why so many excuses? Many communes work very well. The Mormon communes are great examples from what I know of them. Those children are well behaved too. Work is made into playtime, i.e milk the cow, ride the tractor, etc...

Now you've brought religion and a higher purpose into the mix. The Amish are quite adept at the concept, as well, but try bringing that heavy hand of daily labor and ritual down on a lifetime welfare recipient and see what happens.

 

[Stephanie739]

And yet our welfare system actually discourages work! The program does not encourage people to get work, because often the types of jobs they get (minimum wage or part time or both) usually are not enough to live on, so if a person on welfare does work or try to work and makes too much money, they loose thier benefits and could become homeless and then probably loose the new job. (LOL) What our system should do is allow work and not cut off all benefits automatically. They should cut it off slowly with working being part of the welfare process (unless children are very young) as a supplement, on a case by case basis. Our welfare system encourages dependence by not supporting efforts towards independence.

This is why all basic living essentials need to be addressed but with a new perspective. To get up, people need security without oppression. If living essentials are met, and work is rewarded as well as meaningful, morale also improves.

 

[rebelcowboysnb]

Last I checked in to it, making over $250 a month cut you off of disability an anything under that was prorated... I have heard its not that way now but dont know.

 

[Royd]

No, this is a housing project that has a community garden. It's not a commune. Not even close, and you arte stereotyping the poor again. One of the things I am always amused by as a sociologist is that we have tons of experience studying, interviewing and working with the poor (often in community programs), so we have more personal experience with individual poor people than the typical layperson, but when I tell you that your description of the poor is not backed up by research and facts gathered about them, you ignore me. I have not met many poor people who like it, who stay on welfare long term, etc., in the way most people stereotype them. Most poor people use welfare, community housing, etcs as stepping stones to independence... They get housing when their children are toddlers and while they go to school. They get jobs, they save and generally they do thier best to try to get out of poverty or at least support themselves. Human nature is not geared to live in a tiny low income apartment on a tight budget. Most people find this an uncomfortable way to live. There are some exceptions, but they are just exceptions. They can be dealt with if we get more welfare fraud oversite.

That's why, during Katrina, a whole city sat on its hands and became victims of Mother Nature. Generations of entitlement mentality....Just what the War on Poverty was designed to do. Create whole sections of government dependents and thus a huge voting base.
One didn't have to search far in 08 for people who truly believed that by voting for Obama, they were going to get a free ride for the rest of their lives..Obama bucks, Obama phone, no mortgage, no utilities, free gas, and now, free healthcare.

 

[Stephanie739]

Now you've brought religion and a higher purpose into the mix. The Amish are quite adept at the concept, as well, but try bringing that heavy hand of daily labor and ritual down on a lifetime welfare recipient and see what happens.

I am not advocating federally sponsored communism. This is a free will experiment which aims to teach important life sustaining and improvement skills such as food production and home maintenance while encouraging independent living. If people do not want to participate, then I wouldn't want them to.