The IMPORTED ENGLISH Orpington Thread

[BamaChicken]

Oh the joys of breeding for laced Blues!

I would keep the birds with excellent lacing and go from there, not worrying too much whether or not they were too light or too dark in overall color, that can always be corrected down the line.

Breed those birds together and back to whatever parent bird that produced them in hopes of more excellent laced offspring.

I'd stay away from the smaller birds too, I've always been told once you loose size it's hard as heck to get it back. That said, if their type is amazing maybe do some trial breedings and see what size offspring they throw.

If you can do it try to only breed Blue to Blue birds, that way you always have a concrete visual of the quality of lacing. Now I don't want to discredit the usefulness of a good Black or Splash bird but Blue X Blue is just visually easier to look at and say "oh, that bird has great lacing". Blacks and Splashes from BBS lines should carry the pattern gene as well that is responsible for lacing and if you look closely you should be able to see lacing on their feathers too, these are the birds that you want to breed back to your Blues.

You can see lacing in the hackle of my Black hen here.





And here on this Splash pullet.

Sylvia, if you have a very typey boy that is not as large as you want you can put him over a large hen and produce larger males with him. I have read several articles from English Breeders from a longtime ago and they stated this fact. I have done it myself. The hen has a lot to do with producing larger offspring.

Laced genes tend to produce laced genes.

 

[thedragonlady]

I don't have anywhere near the amount of breeding experience under my belt as you do, but thank you very much for the compliment.

I always make sure to pay attention when you speak about type, color, conditioning etc. Learn from the best, right?

Thank you Jeremy ! You have way more knowledge of genetics than I do. I'm stuck at the" short pea, tall pea stage", so I just breed what I see, regardless of pedigree. It seems to work pretty well most of the time, unless I make an excuse to keep a bird who does not look like the rest of the gang.I want ALL the peas to look alike.

 

[aveca]

I love the "build the barn, then paint it" analogy. It is so fitting and helpful to explain to others why/what I am doing...

Now I hope I can pick your brains

.

I have built the barn and need painting advise. I am trying to improve lacing on a specific line. I read somewhere on this thread a while back and I believe it was from a German source, that the rooster should be selected for color (not forgetting type) and the hen for size (and type). I have been working with two black hens I have that are the type and size I want (aside from some inconsequential remodeling). I have two roosters (one splash, one blue) capable of breeding blues so I have hatched eggs from each of those over my two hens as trials. The blue over the blacks produced dark blues with some lacing but not enough to keep, so those have been culled (given to friends). The batch of splash over black was significantly more promising, with one out of ten chicks with excellent lacing and shading, the others have okay lacing, but are on the dark side or the lacing is not as contrasting since the shading is a tad dark. I also tried the blue cock over two splash hens that are very good, but not quite as huge as the blacks. The chicks from that hatch also show better lacing, but of course there are quite a few splash chicks (I posted a pic of the strange barred chick from this breeding). I am trying to figure out if I stick with one out ten ratio and just try the breeding again in the fall and keep only the excellent color/lacing if it is repeated, or keep the pullets that are good but not great in color and breed to the same cock or the other in the trial.

I will have the option of nice lacing in hens from two imported lines, but though they are gorgeous and typey, they lack the size and weight of the other line that is half English and American. Advise anyone? Can I get good blues from black hens? They are out of a black rooster and possibly a blue hen.

You have to breed the strong laced birds to the strong laced birds in order to maintain that..if you start to breed washed out to washed out you will get washed out...even a strong lace to washed out, it will begin to wash out...choose strong lacing in both..the male is in the wild the color, feather maker..if you use cardinal as example..the strongest colored males produce the strongest color..that applys to chicken varietys where the female is a dull color..I cant think of an example off the top..but you have to watch the male in that case..the blue is a manipulated , man made color.

 

[galanie]

I don't have anywhere near the amount of breeding experience under my belt as you do, but thank you very much for the compliment. I always make sure to pay attention when you speak about type, color, conditioning etc. Learn from the best, right?

Thank you Jeremy ! You have way more knowledge of genetics than I do. I'm stuck at the" short pea, tall pea stage", so I just breed what I see, regardless of pedigree. It seems to work pretty well most of the time, unless I make an excuse to keep a bird who does not look like the rest of the gang.I want ALL the peas to look alike.

You know, Al, the cornish guy, used to say that about "breeding what you see" on the LF Cornish thread and got hell for it. Likely it was his tone though, if you know Al you know what I mean. Point being, I've heard that more than once from folks that were breeding some dang nice birds of any breed. Sometimes we do get so hung up in what "should" happen I guess we forget to just look at the darn birds and see what IS happening.

 

[aveca]

I don't have anywhere near the amount of breeding experience under my belt as you do, but thank you very much for the compliment.

I always make sure to pay attention when you speak about type, color, conditioning etc. Learn from the best, right?

Jeremy, you are a great help and know a lot! I just caught something interesting from Vickie the other day too about holding the feather up to the light to view close webbing that sheds water well..I have on occasion seen a bird here or there at shows that has a feather that almost looks raggy on the edge, not lice, just breeding degrade? Not sure..

saw one last year at a show...stunning bird, but something wasnt right in the feather but I couldnt put my finger on what it was..just something I noticed but didnt understand..hopefully Vickie would say what the remedy for that would be in case anyone ever asked..diet? breeding? both?

Rogers birds are strong in every department . lacing that looks like somone took a magic marker around the edge on males and females.. no shafting ,near perfect..the feather is tight webbing great quality..then I saw a blue at a show that had that strange quality to it..not sure exactly what that meant ..the bird had almost a frayed end on the feather..

maybe its something being overlooked in breeding..the feather became too soft? I wondered about it and forgot about it until now.

 

[aveca]

You know, Al, the cornish guy, used to say that about "breeding what you see" on the LF Cornish thread and got hell for it. Likely it was his tone though, if you know Al you know what I mean. Point being, I've heard that more than once from folks that were breeding some dang nice birds of any breed.

Sometimes we do get so hung up in what "should" happen I guess we forget to just look at the darn birds and see what IS happening.

My german freind told me same thing about the whites..he said , Lynne, your over thinking this..see that white bird right there, look at his build and color, hes your breeding rooster..and that hen over there, fantastic depth of front ect....dont over work it, or over think it you will turn it to mud...he told me chickens can be unpredictable because of gene panel being large so EXPECT anomolies...an anomolie will pop up..dont sweat it..those sports have sometimes gone on to create nice breeds such as deleware...even the white orp was a sport....and the best peice of advise was ..you have nothing to prove to anyone ,dont be in any hurry to show or do anything and chance making birds sick.. you are helping to keep an extreamly rare breed going..all of the rest will take care of itself down the road..

 

[thedragonlady]

Jeremy, you are a great help and know a lot! I just caught something interesting from Vickie the other day too about holding the feather up to the light to view close webbing that sheds water well..I have on occasion seen a bird here or there at shows that has a feather that almost looks raggy on the edge, not lice, just breeding degrade? Not sure..

saw one last year at a show...stunning bird, but something wasnt right in the feather but I couldnt put my finger on what it was..just something I noticed but didnt understand..hopefully Vickie would say what the remedy for that would be in case anyone ever asked..diet? breeding? both?

Rogers birds are strong in every department . lacing that looks like somone took a magic marker around the edge on males and females.. no shafting ,near perfect..the feather is tight webbing great quality..then I saw a blue at a show that had that strange quality to it..not sure exactly what that meant ..the bird had almost a frayed end on the feather..

maybe its something being overlooked in breeding..the feather became too soft? I wondered about it and forgot about it until now.

Feather quality has to be bred in a line. It can be affected greatly by a poor diet, or parasites, but strong wide feathers are a must for Orps. Just look at Johnn's birds surviving very well on the moors, in all sorts of weather. They may get the top layer of feathers damp, but they stay dry underneath, and don't loose body heat. Those same wide feathers also keep the Orps cooler as the sun doesn't get to their skin.

In looking at a flock of Orps, you'll generally see one or two females that show much more rooster wear than the rest. I used to think it was because those hens were "easy". Some are, but most often I've found that those tatty looking hens do not have as good feather quality as the decent looking ones. Check your balding hens for feather quality . I think you'll be surprised.

 

[Christabelle]

I'm not sure how he got in my yard- but he is waiting patiently for me to come out.

He is one of my five LF chocolate from Boykin.

 

[deek]

...and the best peice of advise was ..you have nothing to prove to anyone ,dont be in any hurry to show or do anything and chance making birds sick.. you are helping to keep an extreamly rare breed going..all of the rest will take care of itself down the road..

Love this advice!

It's hard not to get all worked up when you're giving 100%. Those whites of yours are in the right hands, Lynne.

 

[deek]

Feather quality has to be bred in a line. It can be affected greatly by a poor diet, or parasites, but strong wide feathers are a must for Orps. Just look at Johnn's birds surviving very well on the moors, in all sorts of weather. They may get the top layer of feathers damp, but they stay dry underneath, and don't loose body heat. Those same wide feathers also keep the Orps cooler as the sun doesn't get to their skin.

In looking at a flock of Orps, you'll generally see one or two females that show much more rooster wear than the rest. I used to think it was because those hens were "easy". Some are, but most often I've found that those tatty looking hens do not have as good feather quality as the decent looking ones. Check your balding hens for feather quality . I think you'll be surprised.

I am far too embarrassed to show you actual pictures since last year I made a real rookie mistake by allowing the cockerel to be with the pullets far too long.

I'd pay top dollar for a molt right now.

Max favored two girls. No questioning his favorites. Each were from two different lines. One you have to look closely to see Cock bird damage, the other looks like she's had chemo in just the breeding areas. Definitely different feather quality. Same diet, housing, and no parasites.