The Natural Chicken Keeping thread - OTs welcome!

[islafarm]

The main issue is that you don't want to feed yeast fermented products when there is a candida infection. That means you also need to stop feeding ACV as well until it is cleared up.

Oh, yeah that makes sense, thank you!

 

[hellbender]

The main issue is that you don't want to feed yeast fermented products when there is a candida infection. That means you also need to stop feeding ACV as well until it is cleared up.

I wonder, has this yeast infection been confirmed by a Vet. or is someone taking a shot in the dark?

EDIT: Let me add this. Ivermectin is a NATURAL product (more than less) and is capable of cleaning up yeast infections if applied judiciously. I even use it as a general wormer in the Autumn.

 

[Leahs Mom]

Quote: That's the point I was making before when I said "if it IS sour crop..." I, personally, am pretty resolved on not treating things unless I have a clear idea of what's going on as well.

It sounds like Sherry is saying that she has concluded that isn't the problem.


Edited to fix sentence structure.

 

[oldhenlikesdogs]

I'm gonna pop in here and say every sick chicken I have ever tried to help was dead in 6 months, they get over things on their own or it's something unfixable and internal. Just what I've seen over the years. And my husband would kill me if I gave his wine to the chickens.

 

[JulesChicks]

I'm gonna pop in here and say every sick chicken I have ever tried to help was dead in 6 months, they get over things on their own or it's something unfixable and internal. Just what I've seen over the years. And my husband would kill me if I gave his wine to the chickens.

Lol. Mine would do that if it was his beer.

I'm new to chickens but from the little experience I've had with sick ones so far I would agree with that statement. I didn't realize how different birds were from mammals - or I did and just hadn't experienced it before. Plus, my dogs never get sick the way these birds have with the respiratory crud. I have a new one that is sick, but not really sick, just a little crusty nose. She was doing a bit of sneezing a week ago when it started with her, but I haven't noticed that in a couple of days. I'm not going to treat her with antibiotics like I did the others (we eventually culled), I'm just giving her some VetRx to help her a bit. We'll see what happens. I would hate to cull her but we knew that this respiratory thing could pop up again. She's only 13 weeks old and is a beautiful Blue Wheaten Ameraucana - they are my favorite of the 13 remaining chickens and I would hate to lose them.

Someone on our local thread recommended something she called "the solution" that was recommended to her by the state vet when she had birds with MG. She went through the same as me and tried treating, then culling, then tried the solution and hasn't had a problem since. I guess it "cleans" the birds beaks, nostrils, etc so the nasties can't get a foothold and keeps the water clean. Anyway, I decided to try it before I take the drastic measure of culling my whole flock (all of whom are healthy but are probably carriers). So, it's basically bleach (regular unscented) - 2 cups to one gallon of water - you put that in an airtight container and label it. Then, you add 1 T of the solution per gallon of water for their drinking water when the chickens are healthy, and 2 T per gallon of water when they are not. I started using it last Tuesday. I of course, don't like the idea of using this watered down bleach solution and my main concern was what it would do to the birds gut flora- and of course it's not the natural route I would like to take. So what do y'all think about it? Anyone here ever use it?

 

[Leahs Mom]

I think I also tend to agree.

Which is why good husbandry is so important...the kind that helps them build a strong immune system WITHOUT CHEMICAL INTERVENTION. I have treated injuries which makes sense...a cut on a foot, a sprained leg, etc. and would do that with no problem. But if there is illness, from what I have been able to gather, it can almost always be traced to husbandry (which can be fixed for) including feed ingredients, environment, etc.

So...... "Natural Chicken Keeping" is about PREVENTION through good husbandry. Not about treatment.

@JulesChicks
This is my opinion (based on good reasoning I think, but my opinion none-the-less), so I preface it with that.

I would encourage you not to use the bleach solution you are describing. Using these kinds of things can cause you more problems in the long-run. Issues like anti-biotic resistant bacteria, unhealthy gut flora that can lead to candida infection of both the vent and crop (gleet & sour crop), and just a general weakening of their own immune system from being able to mount a defense against any illness.

If I were going to put anything in feed or water, I'd rather choose a probiotic than an anti-biotic. These are from natural source and can help strengthen the system rather weakening things. Even this is not necessary if they have access to the kind of situation that builds rather than weakens the system. (Including NO routine worming. Worming only if indicated by sample or obvious need...but even worm overload indicates there is something that needs to be addressed in husbandry/environment, or that there is another underlying issue weakening them. Most strong, healthy animals given species-appropriate food opportunities do not have an issue with overload.)

Clean, fresh water, fresh air, as much range as you can work out in your situation, using a deep litter of wood chips and shavings from the indoor housing, etc. on outdoor runs to keep the ground healthy, (no impacted, disease-producing runs) the best feed you can afford with hopefully some "animal protein" available from time to time (and little or no legume seed which are not a species-appropriate food for chickens)..... And freedom from chemical inputs to allow them to build their own strong immune system. Those are some basics that make for good health in the long-run.


There is also the issue of where the birds came from and the health of that flock or the parentage flock. But I know that health can often be restored by using the same principles even if you didn't start with healthy stock.



Oh...just in case anyone is interested, the only avian probiotic that I've been able to find that is NOT GROWN ON A GMO SUBSTRATE is the AVI-Culture 2. Their website is pretty bad, but the product is good. I've spoken to this guy (and several other probiotic producers) to question how they culture their products and this one is the only one so far that guarantees a non-GMO substrate. Lots of places call their product "non-gmo" because the culture organisms aren't GMO...but they still grow the cultures on GMO substrates and admit it if questioned. This one doesn't. A small container of this goes a long way... http://www.avi-culture.com/shop.html

 

[oldhenlikesdogs]

I have had a few birds over the years get a sneezing wheezing respiratory thing, usually in the fall and most get over in about a week, once in a while one really gets it bad and we will cull based on suffering. I agree with the letting their immune system work, and that most animals can handle a small worm load and it's actually natural and a part of the circle of life, every organism is here for a reason and serves a purpose. It's natural.

 

[Leahs Mom]

I actually read several studies about worms stating that they had discovered that certain worms (not at "overload" but "normal" load) produce certain substances that their hosts need for health. THAT WAS A PARADIGM CHALLENGE for my so-called "educated" brain. And this was also referring to human hosts as well as animal. Of course they also discussed "overload" due to modern diet and farming practices that tend to decimate our immune system/intestinal bio-balance.

I'll have to see if I can find the studies and post links. It was certainly "food for thought"....

 

[oldhenlikesdogs]

I have been reading a lot on this site that fact that I'm only supposed to feed a premade rationed diet and any amount of alterations to that diet will cause all kinds of evil upon my poultry. Now I provide a ration but it is probably less than half of what my birds consume. I was wondering how many of you follow ration only. I feed a lot of different grains, fruits, vegetables, anything in season, anything left over. Mine also free range so whatever they find they eat.

Some may give the argument about egg production being lowered, I think chickens are like humans as they come into this world with all the potential eggs already determined. I prefer not to rush my hens and I also keep them around for as long as they last, so their egg laying ends up in the end to be about the same. I have tried those super duper egg laying breeds and find them to be mean prone to feather picking and egg eating, and all around a more aggressive bird. They seem to start young and burn out quickly.

So back to my original question, about ration only diets and who follows that, and if you don't like me have you seen any ill affects.

 

[hellbender]

I have been reading a lot on this site that fact that I'm only supposed to feed a premade rationed diet and any amount of alterations to that diet will cause all kinds of evil upon my poultry. Now I provide a ration but it is probably less than half of what my birds consume. I was wondering how many of you follow ration only. I feed a lot of different grains, fruits, vegetables, anything in season, anything left over. Mine also free range so whatever they find they eat.

Some may give the argument about egg production being lowered, I think chickens are like humans as they come into this world with all the potential eggs already determined. I prefer not to rush my hens and I also keep them around for as long as they last, so their egg laying ends up in the end to be about the same. I have tried those super duper egg laying breeds and find them to be mean prone to feather picking and egg eating, and all around a more aggressive bird. They seem to start young and burn out quickly.

So back to my original question, about ration only diets and who follows that, and if you don't like me have you seen any ill affects.

I do things with my birds (not my kids' birds') like you except to 10th power...