The Plymouth Rock Breeders thread

[Yard full o' rocks]

I was able to spend a little time at the Kville show with Jeff Halbach. What a gentle soul he is...I know that Jeff will miss Harry terribly. He was such a proponent for this hobby

God speed Harry

 

[Yard full o' rocks]

Hatching season is off to a slow start here, but started nonetheless

3 eggs made it to the hatcher and 3 hatched. Only one was from a breeding pen, the darkest one in the pix

Hoping 5 make it to the hatcher this next Friday

 

[Happy Chooks]

Harry Halbach was part of a family that gave us, in many, many ways, the White Plymouth Rock that we know and love from their farm in Wisconsin. For the past 3/4 century, the Halbach name was forever attached to the White Plymouth Rock. They bred the best and the birds they shared by the thousands were the best.

If you have Blosl or Volk or many other lines of "stay white" White Rocks, you've got birds that are Halbach in heritage. But beyond that, as Lindsay says in her announcement, Harry was a giving man and lived a worthy life. Rest in peace. Our prayers go out for the family.

So sorry to hear that. My condolences to his family.

 

[SilverRockFarm]

My second Silver Penciled Plymouth Rock hatch of this hatching season, got 8 healthy chicks yesterday.

 

[uphilljill]

-10 here this morning. No eggs or hatching for us for a while yet. So envious of all those that have chicks. Great start!

 

[rancher hicks]

-10 here this morning. No eggs or hatching for us for a while yet. So envious of all those that have chicks. Great start!

Are you on our New York Chicken Lovers thread?

Anyhow a number of us ARE hatching, so it might be good to drop in and see what's what.

We do have the Picnic coming up in May too.

 

[Fred's Hens]

Breeding for higher egg production.


We get a good number of inquiries about egg laying and what breeders of Standard bred Rocks do about egg laying. I'll share a little bit about what I do and perhaps others can share what, if anything, they stress in the breeding goals.

Our Plymouth Rock varieties, Barred and White, will never lay like the Mediterranean breeds do, as they are simply too large and too focused to balance egg laying with meat production. But 200 eggs a pullet year is certainly respectable egg production and well within the capabilities of the Plymouth Rock. So how do we include egg laying in our breeder selection process?

My chosen breeders were selected last fall and I took them to the Knoxville National for judging. They passed with flying colors. Since then, they've been in lay and I've had a 90 day period to judge them for egg laying before including them in the breeding pens in a few weeks now.

1. How many eggs are they laying? To determine this, my layer groups are small. 4 pullets. I quickly learn which egg each pullet is laying. It's not that difficult. I also must collect eggs three times a day in winter to prevent eggsicles and I notice who is "in the box" and who isn't. Soon, I'm pretty sure about most of them. 4 eggs per week. 5 eggs per week. Only 2 eggs per week.

But, sometimes I semi-isolate a pullet with a pen within the pen, so as not to disrupt things too much and check an individual pullet or hen's laying. This is as close to trap nesting as I can do. It works for me. Most of the time my suspicions are confirmed.

2. I not only check egg laying rates, but I am also checking egg size and quality. Since I dislike hatching from medium to small eggs, if a female cannot lay at least a medium to large egg, with large being much preferred, I have second thoughts about including her in the breeding.

3. I also check interior egg quality. If a female continues to lay eggs with meat bits or specs of blood within the egg, I watch her closely. I keep checking those eggs. While not unusual for starting pullets to sort out these issues, it must not be allowed to continue.

So in conclusion, selecting breeders is not just about physical characteristics, not here, not on this farm. Do all breeders take these steps? In all honesty, it would seem quite doubtful. It is not a secret that some "lines" are notoriously poor layers, and layers of very subpar eggs. If egg laying isn't important to a breeder and the breeder puts the majority of focus upon the exhibitions, sooner or later, it is understandable that a strain defaults to being less than stellar layers of high quality eggs.

This topic might stir up a bit of a hornet's nest, but that's alright. It's cold. It's winter and a new topic won't hurt us.

 

[Beekissed]

This topic is of great interest to me and I'll be watching it closely, as I want to implement breeding strategies that would increase the production of a standard bred bird while keeping or improving the traits that would keep it true to the standard. I have a few things I am trying this year but I probably better not expound until I see if they actually work....which could take a good few years to see.

Would love to hear about other people's efforts in this goal, though, so will be interested to read along!

 

[Fred's Hens]

Just like selecting for type? You simply have to put the numbers on the ground to have privilege of making selections. That oft repeated axiom just gets lost, far too often, when discussing breeding. You simply have to have a bunch of chicks, who become a bunch of juvies, who become a bunch of young adults, who enter lay or finish as Cockerels before you can be "selective" (read picky, fussy, particular). Otherwise, you're not really selecting, you're just accepting by default, those few birds you did manage to hatch.

This is why the mythology surrounding the current breed preservation fad sometimes grates me, I freely admit. The motives are admirable and I support those goals with all my heart but the realities one faces are going to work against you. Entropy is the universal principle that things move from organization or form to chaos and disorder. This is true of breeds as well. Breeds are man-made. Breeds do not "stay put together" without our husbandry. We have this dominion over the animals and if we exercise it wisely we can produce amazing creatures. Without creative, knowledgeable, skilled, practiced and attentive husbandry and breeding, the very best grouping of a breed given to someone as a starter flock will degrade within just a few years into a less than lovely group of birds.

If you breed pinched tails you'll get more pinched tails. If you continue to "help" chicks out of shells, you'll soon produce birds that cannot hatch themselves with robust energy. If you breed horrid layers you make more and more poor layers. And so it goes. These aspects or attributes are not permanently endowed upon these birds.

If egg laying isn't a goal, then do not check, do not track point of lay and do not quantify or record egg laying in either quality or quantity. If it does matter, then husbandry means we get involved, we track, we record, we notice, we judge, and we select for the genetics that gets moved forward to the next generation. This is breeding. Making haphazard chicks is mere propagation, which is fine, but not breeding.

 

[Fred's Hens]

Breeding to the Standard and breeding for egg production attributes are NOT in opposition to each other.

Alright you hatch out some chicks in March. Let's say you hatch out a bunch of them. The straight up odds are that half are pullets. Blosl used to repeat of the old adage of banding your quick feathering birds. The thought there, if not the science, is that quick feathering pullets will be good layers. Nevertheless, you grow your new chicks through spring and as summer hits the midway point, the "good" ones are starting to stand out. They're full of type. They have size. They have that spirit you recognize as an interesting bird. As summer days grow shorter, it's likely time for the first round of culls. You're selecting on type, type and type. You've got your Standard and Schilling's paintings in your brain and you can see "the good ones" and you can see those who are goofy, small, and just plain "off".

As the calendar turns to September, it's high time to get on with round two of culling. Maybe you sell them, maybe you fry them rolled in flour and plunked into oil, maybe you just pen them into group A and group B. Whatever, you're in full selection mode and it is time to start declaring which ones you've really got your eye on.

None of these pullets are laying. At this point, you are no different than the guy in the next county who knocks 'em stiff at the exhibitions. You're both pushing for type, size, health, vigor and attributes you were so hoping would be the outcome of your compensatory match ups in the previous late winter. You see improvements in breast and bottom lines, back lines and tails. You see better heads and better stations on your birds and you're encouraged by this year's crop. But none have laid yet. It isn't time.

Finally, it's October or early November and you decide all your finalists. You're only going to feed so many beaks through the coming winter, so the finalists are chosen. A few are prepped to take to show near you for judging. It's a good habit to get into to. You need your "eye" checked by a Walt Leonard or a Jeff Halbach so you prep and clean take a few representatives to the show. Hopefully you do well, but in any case, what you learn is invaluable and priceless.

Now it's early winter and now all those pullets have come into lay. NOW, you turn into the judge of egg laying. In two or three months, you'll be putting breeding pens together and NOW is the time to make a cull that not enough breeders make. Hopefully, you kept a few more finalists than you really needed to keep. You feel comfortable in doing this final culling, this final bar under which you pass your pullets. You answer these questions.

1. When did she enter lay?
2. How long did it take for her to lay a quality sized, medium to large to X-large egg? A month? Never has?
3. What is the quality of that egg? Meat? blood spots?
4. How many eggs is she laying?
5. Did she start without lights at all, in the darkest days before Christmas? If so, that is considered a good thing, no?

Record, log in, write these pertinent things down in your breeder's book. Call it what you will, but if you don't actually keep meaningful records? You're guessing and shooting in the dark.

Finally, compare the results to your marking of fast feathering from your spring records. Any correlation?

Lastly, look at her toe punch and check and see who her sire was. Surely you know who her sire was because your breeder book has that record. She isn't a good or poor layer all on her own. Her sire had a great deal to do with her ability. Who was her dam? You may find a trend and this information will be greatly useful to you next go round.

Here's to hoping this kind of stuff is helpful. Get your head around this stuff and get geared up. Leg bands, breeder's record book, keeping careful logs, keeping accurate records of sires and dams, developing proper pens, incubating techniques, brooding pens, grow out pens and proper infrastructure to support your efforts. There's always many ways to skin the cat, but find your way, the way that works for you, but plan your work and work your plan.