The Problem With Pumpkin Seeds - By Andy Schneider, aka The Chicken Whisperer

[casportpony]

https://www.researchgate.net/profil...the-general-well-being-of-poultry-species.pdf

I think this is for the above link:

Spoiler: 13 page study

 

[casportpony]

Thank you for sharing. What's the date on this article? Because I believe Wazine is no longer being manufactured.

I think the article by Andy was written in 2015. And you're right about the Wazine, though one can still get piperazine for dogs and cats.

 

[Headhen3]

I had heard or read somewhere that it was the goop around the pumpkin seeds that acted as the wormer. It is interesting how many old remedies, curse preventatives advice have been warped by the passing on of wisdom by word of mouth. I could fill a book with examples from the horse world so I’m sure the chicken world has just as many. But why in the world would anyone use a wormer that then prevented you from eating either the meat or the eggs???

 

[Shadrach]

Pumpkin seeds, and many other herbal feed options, and a product like Flubendazole are trying to do different jobs; I don't believe one is a substitute for the other.
I think those that have concerns regarding parasite immunity to drugs due to over and miss use have a proven case.
None of the research on probiotics and the herbs and seeds etc, to do with worm loads in chickens that I have read has claimed a particular selection of herbs/seeds will kill all the worms if dosed correctly. The chemicals do state this and have proven to be reliable.
What the herbal additives do do according to studies is improve the chickens gut health.
Unfortunately the studies I've read were with confined chickens. I would be interested to know if free range chickens with adequate forage self dose on many of the chemicals the herbs provided for the confined group.

I see the problem as the routine worming advice given on many sites. De-wormers are for sick chickens, or chickens that have worms, such products are not what I believe people should be using routinely.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

I ALWAYS suggest a fecal float to ensure treating correctly IF needed. It has saved me tons of effort and withdrawal expense or time.

I also ask folks... PLEASE, if you use any of these alternative methods for worming (pumpkin, DE, ACV, worm wood, blah blah)... get before and after species load counts and report the findings so we can all learn from your experience and ENSURE your animals are getting the best which is after all the whole point!

I don't think I saw this study posted already..
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5037735/

I have ZERO problem with "natural"... IF it's safe AND effective!

The pharmaceuticals have zero interest in us sharing information with tests and numbers to back our claims and make their products less essential...

 

[Folly's place]

Good drug trials cost significant money, and that money has to come from somewhere. Who's contributing here?
Any chemical, 'natural' or synthetic, is likely to have it's target organism develop resistance to it sometime. This is encouraged by overuse, poor dosing, unnecessary dosing, and the ability of parasites and bacteria to 'get smarter' and do well anyway.
Mary

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Hey friends, I started another thread to try and get some real conversation going... if you are interested or know any member you can direct that way who is willing to participate please do, not a lot of hits so far. Link follows...
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/alternative-and-natural-wormers.1337697/#post-21880168

TIA!

 

[Dianemarie]

Note that the study in Turkey talked a bout 'moderately' and 'marginally' effective in reducing some worm burden in these birds. That covers a lot of territory! As I recall, the birds given the fenbendazole analog had zero worms left after treatment. I'll go with the more effective treatment myself.
There was no attempt to quantify the actual dose/kg. body weight, and at home, planning on each bird to eat x amount of seeds (what variety of pumpkin?) isn't reliable either.
Partial worm load reductions are nice, but then do you feed pumpkin seeds all year, and develop worms resistant to them? Again, not the best plan.
Only by running fecals do you really know what's present, and how treatment works in your flock.
Kind of I have a question.. not for you but just a question.Why does anyone feel the need to have ZERO worms since they eat off the floor and poo you will need to chemical worm all year as well. T

Note that the study in Turkey talked a bout 'moderately' and 'marginally' effective in reducing some worm burden in these birds. That covers a lot of territory! As I recall, the birds given the fenbendazole analog had zero worms left after treatment. I'll go with the more effective treatment myself.
There was no attempt to quantify the actual dose/kg. body weight, and at home, planning on each bird to eat x amount of seeds (what variety of pumpkin?) isn't reliable either.
Partial worm load reductions are nice, but then do you feed pumpkin seeds all year, and develop worms resistant to them? Again, not the best plan.
Only by running fecals do you really know what's present, and how treatment works in your flock.
Mary

This is a very old post but my opinion intended is to raise questions and generate a new idea for someone who is currently having problems. Who decided that stripping the animal to a zero parasite load is necessary or even beneficial? They eat off their own poo and WILL in fact re-infect themselves. By using chemical dewormer won’t we will be stripping down the animals micobiota in their G I tract, then possibly creating another imbalance. Have you considered raising good bacteria within birds GI and reducing the parasitic load using seeds and herbs to keep a balance WITHOUT creating a more resistant strain that will in fact need more or different medication in the future? I am all for deworming when an animal cannot keep work load down on its own I think I have one of those but I still haven’t resorted to a medication on a regular basis. Yes I take the poo for fecal float test. These are just things to consider when strip these animals of their bacteria’s then try to put them back with store bought probiotic. Is another questionable practice, I often see in the online chicken forum.

 

[Folly's place]

Welcome!
Fenbendazole is not antibacterial! And it's true that many/ most chickens can manage a 'mild' parasite load, sometimes it's best to use something effective, rather than pumpkin seed overload.
And this thread is from 2019...
Managing parasite load in free ranging flocks is often location dependent: What's okay in one place may be awful in another. Climate, soil type, what the birds find to eat, all part of the story.
Mary