The Welsummer Thread!!!!

[Happy Chooks]

Contests Bonnie!

And yes, welsummer eggs are darker than barnevelder eggs in the US. Egg color is in need of a lot of work here for the barnevelders.

 

[Opa]

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I've got the Premier poultry fence around my set up and 165' of the 48" fence with dbl spike posts was less than $200

 

[Dr Bjorn Netland]

The eggs Lowell Barber and I got from the UK were from a superior strain. The UK standard is pretty much in line with the one in the Netherlands, so their ideal types are just about identical, as opposed to the German type (large, more RIR type, lower tail set, etc.). World War II was disastrous to the poultry industry on the continent, and the UK fared better, probably resulting in birds in the UK coming through that period almost unscathed. At any rate, I think the UK birds also lay the darker, more desirable egg--so much so that the Dutch are known to import Welsummers from there to improve the Dutch line. Just thought I wanted to call your attention to this curious fact, as many people appear to be interested in importing birds from the Netherlands. Perhaps the UK might be a better place to look....

 

[pinkchick]

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& Welcome to the Welsummer thread! Thanks for sharing your information with us. Do you still have your Welsummers?

 

[EweSheep]

Thank you Dr Netland for your delightful information about the differences in the origins of our Welsummers.

I knew that the UK imported the Welsummers and improved on the egg shell color and then the Dutch needed to improve their egg shell color, they imported Welsummers from the UK. However, the Dutch still needs improvements for their Welsummers and they are doing a good job of it.

I noticed the Germans (as in the bantams) were a bit darker in their first year and second year, they seems to be like the LF Welsummer colors.

Now if anyone can work on getting some from Prince Charles, it would be neat! I would not be surprise if Prince Charles' Welsummers were of the same lines as Lowell Barber's.

 

[Dr Bjorn Netland]

I believe, hoping my memory serves me correctly, the line we got in was called the Elliott line. Whether or not bonnie Prince Charles has the same is something I have no idea about. Anyway, the birds wouldn't be improved with the royal blue blood added, as the royal family tree has lots and lots of very undesirable branches and breed defects on it. Erhard's original birds were known to lay very nice eggs, although they were of German origin. He has introduced blood from our UK line and perhaps also added some newer German imports via friends in British Columbia. He is very pleasant and accommodating, and I trust he'd be happy to help out if anybody needs birds or eggs.

 

[EweSheep]

I didn't think UK breeders would name their lines as some don't.

As someone mentioned, any of you breeders in the "old order" can tell the difference and what good and bad traits they passed down?

As for Prince Charles, I never got a response from his staff, to talk about his flock and where they came from. So if they are not known or told, then they would be suspected to be of a different line. Does his staff knows about breeding good Wellies? Or they just breed for egg colors only and to heck with UK standards?

The Welsummer Book by J. Batty is very informative but lack a very good historical history on the Who's Who in the US Welsummers and abroad. A revisal may be necessary for that book.

 

[vanalpaca]

Quote:
I've got the Premier poultry fence around my set up and 165' of the 48" fence with dbl spike posts was less than $200

I knew yours was electrified, just didn't know what I was looking at!! So was that the fencing that was around the outside areas like the part the chicken tractor was in, not the coop areas, right?

I'm still thinking everyone should try putting up scarecrows this year to see if they can abate any hawk attacks with them and we can post the most successful looking ones on BYC. What better use for old business suits??

Cheers all
Bonnie

 

[Dr Bjorn Netland]

It was Lowell who at one time claimed we had the "Elliott line," and they were supposed a very superior strain at the time. I tried ascertaining the truth of this claim by contacting Fiona (last name I forgot) in the UK club at that time (1980's), but she didn't know for sure. A gentleman in Oregon also had Welsummers out of the UK at that time, and his birds were as gorgeous as the eggs they laid. I received two roosters from him, the better of which went to Lowell, who used it to infuse new blood into his flock. The Oregon gentleman made me promise never to divulge the origin of his birds, for whatever reason, and I have respected his wishes. He is no longer around.
As for breeding purposes, I have studied material I have come across from the Netherlands, the UK, Germany, and Denmark, as I can read all those languages. There is a decision to be made when it comes to type: German ideal (which would be by far the majority of Welsummers in this world because breeders in many other countries (Denmark, Sweden, etc.) appear to have embraced that type or the Dutch/UK ideal [there is a difference both in body type and color] and then whether or not to breed for eggshell color/shape/size or quantity of eggs.
I studied the standards carefully and decided to go with what we had already, which led to some conflict when it came to the US standard. While we pretty much accepted a standard along the UK lines at first, the Canadian, most of whom have birds out of Germany, lobbied for an adjustment, which I did my best to voice against. The result was a happy/unhappy compromise (the tail angle), especially of the male. I have a total aversion of political meanderings and APA pressure tactics, and my protests were easily shoved aside as the opinions of a nobody (rightfully so) with no powerful allies in the organization. Comparing the German and UK types, one almost gets the impression of two different breeds, which I find regrettable.
Both Lowell and I (along with Ron Nelson in Wisconsin, who passed away last year and is a terrible loss to the poultry world) kept breeding for the UK standard and egg quality; we felt the birds were sufficiently productive so that we did not have to worry too much about that aspect. Over time, some of our birds turned out lower on leg and smaller in size, which is why we added new blood (Oregon) and I tried to set up a strain from Canada/Germany mixed in with ours. I kept that mixed strain going although I found it inferior to our other, pure UK strain (now with new infusion from the Oregon birds). A terrible dog raid followed by racoon problems ended the mixed Canadian/UK line, and my own physical problems (back, and right arm/leg) compounded the bad situation. As I have since retired and my physical situation has improved slightly, I am able to take better care of my birds with less reliance of hired help, yet the passing of Lowell and Ron has left a big vacuum in my feather fancier world and also taken away much of my incentive to be involved. However, I am getting back some of the birds from my own line (maintained by a local hobbyist) to start working with them again. I only wish that I knew who took over the birds from Ron Nelson; it would be a terrible crime if they were simply put down.
These are just some of my worthless musings about the Welsummers, and I hope there may be a couple of bits and pieces in this missive that may shed some more light on the Welsummer history in the US.

 

[EweSheep]

We really need an updated revisal of the APA standard and get it back where it should be like. Not on a whim of certain individuals that had not much knowledge or the less of the evil of certain traits.

White feathers are a problem here, not sure where it was originally from but if Mr Barber was not aware of the background of those eggs' parentage, something has to be worked out of the lines by not breeding any white feathered birds. Feather legs are a problem as well so we have to cull very hard against it.

Dr Netland, none of your threads you wrote are boring, it is rather enlightening and it would make a good reading on a rainy day. We don't have very many pictures of the original Welsummer stock and I do know a few that has been mentioned in the photographs off of one website.

Traits has been popping up now, your viewpoints are important to us as readers and after that, when that is said and done, it is up to us to carry the torch or develop our own line.

Sticking points would be the "beefness" and looks of points on Welsummer cockerals. Some are very extreme and some are just awful. Grey or slate down feathers, popping up on the tail head area, you certainly don't want white, am I right? And as yellow as your birds legs can be!

Now if we can get some kind of egg color evaluation how the UK judges use to determine, I would love to know what they are looking for in Welsummer egg colors. You may have some in light orange to reddish orange brown colors, such a wide variation and there is NO consisency in the egg shell color like some Ameraucanas have right now. Speckled or not to be speckled, I am certain it is up to all the breeder's preferances.

I know if I can remember correctly, Welsummers have been around about 1920's, imported in the US but I don't have that concrete verification to stand that up yet.