totally new here! thoughts on coop design in predator land?

[zenstarling]

Hi there, brand new to chickens! Happy to be a part of this forum. I have been thinking about raising chickens for years, and finally feel we're in the place to start this project this year. I have been in research mode for weeks. This site is a goldmine for information, experiences and answers to many, many questions, and I have been reading so much, so thank you first and foremost!

I am in the midst of a pile of graph paper with various coop + run design ideas. I've perused the wonderful coops section and seen so many hundreds of photos of great setups, so many different methods! It is nicely overwhelming...

We are in rural Connecticut, on a quiet cul de sac road of one acre properties surrounded by overgrown brush lots, woods, fields, and farmland. We really have every predator in the state crossing through our property quite regularly. We have had many daytime sightings of bobcats (including bobkittens more than once), lots of LOUD, close yipping coyotes, and foxes on the trail cam (and I regularly find winter snow prints of all three). We spotted a bear come through once, in early April four years ago, but no sightings since (though I'm sure they're around). We also have red shouldered and red tailed hawks, including an occasional bald eagle, and a very established family of barred owls. There are also raccoons and opposums. The only thing I've never seen here is a weasel!

Considering all the predator action, my husband and I are looking at the best predator proofing we can provide (yes, I know bears can rip doors off cars and a hot wire is the only solution for that). In terms of the other four legged hunters. We were wondering if the safest way to build this is to have the coop completely enclosed inside a hardware cloth run. Enclosed as in, the coop would be a standalone structure in the center inside the run area, and would have no exterior outside access points at all. My husband is thinking this is the safest way to keep predators physically away from the coop.

While looking at photos, I realized I have not really seen any designs like this. So I wanted to ask, if there a reason this isn't done? Does it just add too much to the cost to make it fit this way? Or is that design overkill and not really needed?

I would love if anybody has any input regarding what kind of design works well living among very active predator cats and canines, who can obviously just smell my ideas!

Thank you for all your help!

 

[DobieLover]

I have all the same cast of characters but have also seen fisher cats run through the woods behind my house.
I put the coop/run combo plunked inside a perimeter fence of poultry netting powered with a 10,000 volt charger. I've not lost any birds to ground predators. I lost one to a hawk in just over 3.5 years.

 

[Obsessed With Silkies]

A good idea would be to completely enclose the run with wire sides, top, and even putting some of the fencing into the ground so it would make it harder for predators to dig under. You could make your coop where they nest in this run too with maybe a door as an access point for you. What we do where I live is we lock our chickens up at night. Their coops have doors with latches that I lock at night. We don't have the wire for the roof and an opossum got in one night. Thankfully he didn't make it to their coop. Have fun and good luck!

 

[pennyJo1960]

Welcome to Backyard Chickens.. Use good old hardware cloth and hot wire.. The best way to guard the flock is a rooster.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

Hi there, brand new to chickens! Happy to be a part of this forum. I have been thinking about raising chickens for years, and finally feel we're in the place to start this project this year. I have been in research mode for weeks. This site is a goldmine for information, experiences and answers to many, many questions, and I have been reading so much, so thank you first and foremost!

I am in the midst of a pile of graph paper with various coop + run design ideas. I've perused the wonderful coops section and seen so many hundreds of photos of great setups, so many different methods! It is nicely overwhelming...

We are in rural Connecticut, on a quiet cul de sac road of one acre properties surrounded by overgrown brush lots, woods, fields, and farmland. We really have every predator in the state crossing through our property quite regularly. We have had many daytime sightings of bobcats (including bobkittens more than once), lots of LOUD, close yipping coyotes, and foxes on the trail cam (and I regularly find winter snow prints of all three). We spotted a bear come through once, in early April four years ago, but no sightings since (though I'm sure they're around). We also have red shouldered and red tailed hawks, including an occasional bald eagle, and a very established family of barred owls. There are also raccoons and opposums. The only thing I've never seen here is a weasel!

Considering all the predator action, my husband and I are looking at the best predator proofing we can provide (yes, I know bears can rip doors off cars and a hot wire is the only solution for that). In terms of the other four legged hunters. We were wondering if the safest way to build this is to have the coop completely enclosed inside a hardware cloth run. Enclosed as in, the coop would be a standalone structure in the center inside the run area, and would have no exterior outside access points at all. My husband is thinking this is the safest way to keep predators physically away from the coop.

While looking at photos, I realized I have not really seen any designs like this. So I wanted to ask, if there a reason this isn't done? Does it just add too much to the cost to make it fit this way? Or is that design overkill and not really needed?

I would love if anybody has any input regarding what kind of design works well living among very active predator cats and canines, who can obviously just smell my ideas!

Thank you for all your help!

You haven't seen pictures because it doesn't photograph well. Plenty of people have a coop completely encased by a hardware cloth-protected run. Those little iglu inside of a dog run, to which hardware cloth is then attached to the chain link is a good example, on the small side. A few people have even attached a line or two of electric fencing on stand offs around the outside, using the whole cage as the ground, so an external predator looking to get in is likely to get quite the shock.

Very large scale, its a single multi-door "shed" like structure with fences coming off each of the four sides, dividing a pasture into quarters, and thus promoting rotational grazing. Again, the outer fence can be electrified.

Are they the most cost effective way to build? nope.

Are they the most convenient, that you have to go into the run every time you want to gather eggs, add new bedding, rake away spent bedding, etc... also nope.

But they are done.

Welcome to BYC - you've already figured out one of the big secrets. The best coop/runs work as a system designed to compliment your management style, and there are no perfect solutions - only acceptable tradeoffs.

 

[CoopintheWoods]

I'm in upstate NY- not too far away. Our coop is built out of an old cement-floored woodshed, so the coop itself is like Fort Knox.

For the run, we used cattle panels (or maybe they're called hog panels?) that we covered in chicken wire. These are attached to a frame made of 2x4s, but could easily be constructed like a hoop greenhouse.

The hog panels are also buried maybe 8 or 10 inches everywhere they touch the ground. They completely cover the top and sides of the run and are attached to the coop building. A lot of people around us have similar setups.

We have NEVER (knock on wood) had anything breach the run or coop, and we have all sorts of raptors, racoons, foxes, and everything else around here. The only birds we've lost have been when they were free-ranging. We've had a few times when a raccoon or fox or something has been lurking around and we've taken care of that, but nothing ever got into the run.

The most important thing, if nothing else, is to lock up the chickens before dusk every night. Chickens can be snatched in broad daylight, but a flock can be wiped out after dark.

Best wishes and good luck with your flock!

Edit: And welcome to BYC!

 

[rosemarythyme]

I have all your predators plus weasels (one greeted me on the driveway a few years back).

While my run isn't predator proof (I opted for "predator resistant" due to the fact that my set up is close to the house and I'm generally at home), I do have my 6x10 coop fully inside the run. My coop page here.

Downsides to doing it this way are potential extra cost, the fact that the coop is eating up run space (so that needs to be compensated for, especially if space overall is an issue), and ease of access.

 

[Acre4Me]

We built an elevated (2.5’ off the ground) coop inside an existing 50’x10’ dog run behind our barn. We have since roofed the entire run with metal roofing. The run is not predator proof yet bc the fence and roof do not connect. However, we had raccoons around a year ago, and they were very interested in the chicken run, but never got into it, bc they focused their efforts at trying to dig in. I think bc there was no structure right there for them to access easily as it was several feet away, inside the fence.

 

[WolfsongHomestead]

Hi! Just north of you is South-Central MA. I’m starting out too, with all your predators. I’m focusing on making the coop itself Fort Knox, with no holes over a dime existing that’s not caulked or had hardware cloth/flashing over it. Critters can get in holes the size of a quarter (stoats, weasels, rats) so a secure coop is vital.

As for having the coop in a fully enclosed run, that would be very safe, though probably pricy. Hardware cloth is not cheap! I’m making an enclosed run next to the coop of hardware cloth and 2x4’s, covering the top and all 4 sides, with an apron and cinder blocks around the perimeter. While I don’t expect something to dig through super heavy, dense clay soil, I’d rather not take the chance.

As long as your coop is secure, and your run is adequately protected from being breached by critters, a coop in a fully enclosed run will be fine.

 

[Shezadandy]

You'll want a way to get into your run from the outside, whether it's by having 2 people doors or making a gate. You can make them more secure with bungee cords along with whatever latch. Personally having seen what chickens do with dirt, I don't want my birds under the coop building under-mining the foundation. Literally. So my coop is not in my run.

The area around the coop between the under coop area and the fence has been trenched down 2 feet and 2 cattle panels covered in hardware cloth were sunk in to seal up a vulnerable area.

Chainlink fencing with hardware cloth wired to it is very effective, as is aviary netting over the whole run. Even better, add electric wire to the exterior of the run set up to top it off. I did the full 6ft height because I frequently have hens with babies and babies can slip right through the chain link openings.

We went ... perhaps overboard ... by putting hardware cloth in the coop walls between the wall frame and the interior walls, under the floor (between the floor frame and the plywood decking) (over the windows, of course!) and the ceiling inside the coop is hemmed in with hardware cloth too. Though that's mostly to keep chickens out of the rafters so they don't poop on my head and away from the electric wiring and light bulbs. The hardware cloth is just as much about keeping big things out as it is excluding rodents. The black floor is 3/4" horse stall mats, super durable and easy to clean.