Turkey Talk for 2014

[Arielle]

There will always be challenges-- even shipping horses across the state borders requires a health certificate. In reality it only verifies that the horse is not currently showing any signs of sickness. ANd that is not very effective.

I remember moving 2 of my horses litterally across town from a barn that had had an illness run thru it . . after much discussion with the vets and the manager of the destination barn, we all decided that enough time had elaspes since the last break out that it was safe to move. THe joke was on us. As soon as my horses experienced the stress of a new facility they gave the virus to the other horses, but remained well themselves.


NO perfect system.

Icant even get the inspectors to suit up before trapsing among my birds . . . .

 

[Sydney Acres]

Icant even get the inspectors to suit up before trapsing among my birds . . . .

Seriously!! They, of all people, should know that they can be primary vectors of transmission, since they specifically go from one farm to another all day long. That's absolutely inexcusable.

I'd buy two disposable Tyvek suits of each size, and a box of disposable plastic boot covers for them to use when they come. (As sad as it is, lots of agencies don't have the funding to provide their employees with the proper equipment, and it would be ideal to have those things available for guests from other farms anyway.) I'd meet them at the farm entrance, have them park off the property (there was a well documented case of disease transmission from debris in the tires of a vet's farm-call truck years ago, so all biosecure facilities either have off-farm parking or have a tire scrub and disinfecting station at the farm entrance), and ask them to put on the boot covers and Tyvek suits before coming onto the property. Most inspectors will cooperate under those circumstances.

If they refuse, then I'd send an e-mail to them documenting why you believe that basic biosecurity is important (and that is really quite basic -- I went to the avian pathology department at UGA once with only a change of clothes and shoes, and the professor asked me where my towels, soap, and shampoo were -- the policy was full shower, shampoo, and change of clothes and shoes when heading off the necropsy floor), and document what you had provided to them in an effort to maintain a minimum level of biosecurity at your farm. I would state that you were quite disappointed that they had refused to cooperate, especially since they were there to implement a program of disease prevention (I assume that you are talking about NPIP -- if not, that last part may not apply), and that you hoped that their policy of disregarding basic methods of disease control would change in the future, and would ask that you be kept informed as to the progress of any policy changes that were made. I would be very polite but very insistent, and I would cc it to every supervisor in their chain of command, from the person in the local office all the way up to the head of the USDA and APHIS, and include the state veterinarian of all 50 states, the head of the poultry pathology department of every vet school in the U.S. and Canada, and definitely would include every executive of every major poultry producer in the U.S., as industry is the driving force behind the NPIP program (it protects their investment). Since it would be in writing, they would almost certainly respond to it, probably on multiple levels. If not, they would after you publicized it.

It is just ridiculous that such a disregard of the most basic precautions exist at that level, when so much time and effort and money is utilized for continuing education to farmers telling them how important these biosecurity issues are, usually presented by someone else in the same agency!!

 

[Arielle]

Quote: WHen the supervisor is of the same thinking, you know nothing will happen. I find it very frustrating. SO tome the NPIP is a joke and is only meant to scan for the major issues that might effect the commercial industry. IT is not meant to help anyone else IMO.

Yes you are right, truck tires and feet are the primary vectors; and as inspecors go farm to farm they are the mostly likely to transmit anything from farm to farm.

What I would like to do is put up a gate-- has anyone seen the gate often used in the home situation where the base looks like a large post and the gate is pulled out of the post and attaches to the other side of the drive. I have seen two models now but hesitate to stop and ask a complete stranger what the name of the contraption is. People drive up my drive and ignor the no tresspassing signs.

 

[Sydney Acres]

WHen the supervisor is of the same thinking, you know nothing will happen. I find it very frustrating. SO tome the NPIP is a joke and is only meant to scan for the major issues that might effect the commercial industry. IT is not meant to help anyone else IMO.

Yes you are right, truck tires and feet are the primary vectors; and as inspecors go farm to farm they are the mostly likely to transmit anything from farm to farm.

What I would like to do is put up a gate-- has anyone seen the gate often used in the home situation where the base looks like a large post and the gate is pulled out of the post and attaches to the other side of the drive. I have seen two models now but hesitate to stop and ask a complete stranger what the name of the contraption is. People drive up my drive and ignor the no tresspassing signs.

You need a gate!! Any kind of gate will do, but you need a gate.

You also need a doorbell at the gate that rings in the house or to a pager. Otherwise, how are people supposed to let you know that they're there unless they come on to your property and knock on your door.

There are three signs on my gate. One reads "Sydney Acres. This is a biosecure farm. No entry without permission, AND protective clothing. NO EXCEPTIONS." The second one reads "Please ring doorbell for permission to enter. Absolutely no trespassing will be tolerated!" That one has an arrow pointing to the doorbell. The third one reads "Delivery service and neighbors, please cover shoes with protective boot covers from box." There's an arrow to the box of plastic boot covers, which is inside a little weatherproof box. My neighbors know that it's fine to put on boot covers and come to my door, and my regular delivery people know that it's fine to carry a package to a designated shed that is ~100ft inside my gate if they put on the boot covers, but they are not allowed to wheel it in on a hand truck. (One day my regular UPS guy rang the doorbell and I was in the laundry room, so I didn't hear it. A few moments later I was in my living room and heard the driveway sensor at my gate go off, so I went outside. I found the UPS guy wrapping the wheels of his hand truck with 2 protective booties each and taping them on, and the blade (base, whatever it's called) already had a plastic bag securely taped on. He apologized profusely for violating my rules, but the package was almost 100 lbs and he couldn't carry it without the hand truck, and it was marked "Rush and Urgent." He thought he could use the boot covers as wheel covers and it would be alright. I was so proud of him. Now I leave him 2 dozen eggs and a basket of whatever fruit is ripe from my garden every week in the little delivery shed.)

My gate has 2 parts. The first part is only wide enough for a really big person to walk through. It is latched but unlocked. The second part is a standard drive-through width. That part is kept locked. Local fire department, sheriff department, and ambulance all have the combination to the lock on file. My utility meters are out at the fence line, so meter readers do not have to come onto the farm. The perimeter is fenced, with "No Trespassing, Biosecure Farm." signs posted every 75 feet. If I could just get the wild birds to stop coming by, biosecurity might be a reality! I refuse to house my birds in a way that would prevent wild bird access, but I can at least control almost everything else.

Supervisors in these types of agencies have numerous supervisors over them, one agency has contracts with other agencies (NPIP, APHIS, USDA are all intermingled, both loosely and directly), poultry pathology departments at all the vet schools have very close advisory positions, and industry is very much involved in the NPIP program. Academics don't like their reputations tarnished, so they won't tolerate such a blatant violation of basic principles and will put pressure on the agency to change (or enforce) its policies. If it's not being carried out in a manner that protects industry, the big commercial broiler and egg producers will put pressure on the supervisors to modify the program. Keeping contagious disease under control in backyard flocks is essential to the economic health of industry, which is why they spend so much money on these programs. So notifying one clueless inspector's supervisor may not do anything if the supervisor is just as lazy, but alerting all supervisors agency-wide, academia-wide, and industry-wide in writing will make the problem impossible to bury, and will get a response. If not, the news media has a way of bringing poorly-managed agencies to light, especially when there's e-mail evidence everywhere and still nothing is being done. Investigative reports LOVE that!!

 

[desertmarcy]

You need a gate!! Any kind of gate will do, but you need a gate.

You also need a doorbell at the gate that rings in the house or to a pager. Otherwise, how are people supposed to let you know that they're there unless they come on to your property and knock on your door.

There are three signs on my gate. One reads "Sydney Acres. This is a biosecure farm. No entry without permission, AND protective clothing. NO EXCEPTIONS." The second one reads "Please ring doorbell for permission to enter. Absolutely no trespassing will be tolerated!" That one has an arrow pointing to the doorbell. The third one reads "Delivery service and neighbors, please cover shoes with protective boot covers from box." There's an arrow to the box of plastic boot covers, which is inside a little weatherproof box. My neighbors know that it's fine to put on boot covers and come to my door, and my regular delivery people know that it's fine to carry a package to a designated shed that is ~100ft inside my gate if they put on the boot covers, but they are not allowed to wheel it in on a hand truck. (One day my regular UPS guy rang the doorbell and I was in the laundry room, so I didn't hear it. A few moments later I was in my living room and heard the driveway sensor at my gate go off, so I went outside. I found the UPS guy wrapping the wheels of his hand truck with 2 protective booties each and taping them on, and the blade (base, whatever it's called) already had a plastic bag securely taped on. He apologized profusely for violating my rules, but the package was almost 100 lbs and he couldn't carry it without the hand truck, and it was marked "Rush and Urgent." He thought he could use the boot covers as wheel covers and it would be alright. I was so proud of him. Now I leave him 2 dozen eggs and a basket of whatever fruit is ripe from my garden every week in the little delivery shed.)

My gate has 2 parts. The first part is only wide enough for a really big person to walk through. It is latched but unlocked. The second part is a standard drive-through width. That part is kept locked. Local fire department, sheriff department, and ambulance all have the combination to the lock on file. My utility meters are out at the fence line, so meter readers do not have to come onto the farm. The perimeter is fenced, with "No Trespassing, Biosecure Farm." signs posted every 75 feet. If I could just get the wild birds to stop coming by, biosecurity might be a reality! I refuse to house my birds in a way that would prevent wild bird access, but I can at least control almost everything else.

Supervisors in these types of agencies have numerous supervisors over them, one agency has contracts with other agencies (NPIP, APHIS, USDA are all intermingled, both loosely and directly), poultry pathology departments at all the vet schools have very close advisory positions, and industry is very much involved in the NPIP program. Academics don't like their reputations tarnished, so they won't tolerate such a blatant violation of basic principles and will put pressure on the agency to change (or enforce) its policies. If it's not being carried out in a manner that protects industry, the big commercial broiler and egg producers will put pressure on the supervisors to modify the program. Keeping contagious disease under control in backyard flocks is essential to the economic health of industry, which is why they spend so much money on these programs. So notifying one clueless inspector's supervisor may not do anything if the supervisor is just as lazy, but alerting all supervisors agency-wide, academia-wide, and industry-wide in writing will make the problem impossible to bury, and will get a response. If not, the news media has a way of bringing poorly-managed agencies to light, especially when there's e-mail evidence everywhere and still nothing is being done. Investigative reports LOVE that!!

You have really got them trained well, good job

Here in Arizona, there is no NPIP program, even though there is a contact name on the NPIP website. Maybe because there is not a big enough poultry industry here, IDK, but a friend looked into it and was told distinctly that there will be no NPIP program because there is no funding for it. And apparently a lackadaisical attitude by our esteemed legislature, which would rather spin it's wheels doing idiotic stuff.

 

[Sydney Acres]

You have really got them trained well, good job

Here in Arizona, there is no NPIP program, even though there is a contact name on the NPIP website. Maybe because there is not a big enough poultry industry here, IDK, but a friend looked into it and was told distinctly that there will be no NPIP program because there is no funding for it. And apparently a lackadaisical attitude by our esteemed legislature, which would rather spin it's wheels doing idiotic stuff.

That would make sense -- no poultry industry funding, no NPIP. The entire program exists to protect commercial interests, and is mostly funded by it, from what I've been told. One of the few times that the backyard hobbiest benefits from the commercial interests.

 

[B J Hopkins]

Last year my 2 hens hatched 19 poults. When the poults were 4 weeks old they both started a second nest w/successful hatches. This year it seemed like they were NEVER going to go broody. I have 4 hens this year and so far the hatch rate is awful. The Tom is the son of one hen & brother to 2 of the hens. Not related to my Blue Slate. Do you think the tom being related to 3 of the 4 hens has anything to do with the poor hatch rate?

 

[Sydney Acres]

Last year my 2 hens hatched 19 poults. When the poults were 4 weeks old they both started a second nest w/successful hatches. This year it seemed like they were NEVER going to go broody. I have 4 hens this year and so far the hatch rate is awful. The Tom is the son of one hen & brother to 2 of the hens. Not related to my Blue Slate. Do you think the tom being related to 3 of the 4 hens has anything to do with the poor hatch rate?

It could, if they are inbreeding undesirable recessive genes. Or there could be lots of other things going on. Do you have a good hatch rate with this tom and the one out for 4 hens that he's not related to?

 

[B J Hopkins]

It could, if they are inbreeding undesirable recessive genes.  Or there could be lots of other things going on.  Do you have a good hatch rate with this tom and the one out for 4 hens that he's not related to?

This is the first Turk has mated. He's 11 months old. Nearly all the eggs that didn't hatch had chicks that grew right up to hatching time.

 

[Arielle]

Quote: CA has many breeders that do not follow the NPIP--- one in particular follows the old school of if his birds are exposed and can't handle it, it gets culled, leaving those that can resist to carry on the breeding. The dificulty I have and many of us do, our stock have come from hatchery stock with little exposure and natural selection or we are acquiring breeds that are new to the US and therefore new to our local diseases.

So in the end it is all to support the commercial producers, no one gives a fig about hte backyard flocks.