UK Law change - all bird keepers must register their birds with DEFRA

[Perris]

The test for whether backyard keepers are really going to be treated as holders of livestock (as opposed to a simple registration of what birds live where) will be if you are asked for a CPH number in order to register your birds.

 

[Mid Wales chicken keeper]

I agree. I too am already registered and have been through all the Avian Flu bruhaha.
The conspiracy theorists just seem to have a field day with any such 'intrusion' on their privacy.

Hi Perris, maybe you don't recall the Government’s policy of slaughter on suspicion with foot and mouth (at the urging of one professor Neil Fergusson.) It's not a question of privacy (although I must be a conspiracy theorist as I think it is an intrusion) I think it's a real cause for concern, especially as the overwhelming majority that participated in the consultation, myself included, stated there should be no change in the law, nanny state instead of democracy

 

[Perris]

Hi Perris, maybe you don't recall the Government’s policy of slaughter on suspicion with foot and mouth (at the urging of one professor Neil Fergusson.) It's not a question of privacy (although I must be a conspiracy theorist as I think it is an intrusion) I think it's a real cause for concern, especially as the overwhelming majority that participated in the consultation, myself included, stated there should be no change in the law, nanny state instead of democracy

yes I do remember it, and I think govt often take a sledgehammer to crack a nut. The vast majority of the mortality figures for H5N1 here are the result of culling, not death by disease, and personally I do not think we should be doing anything to protect the industrial chicken sector; overcrowded sheds of broiler chicks and laying hens are the principal breeding ground for these diseases in the first place. And I too opined for no change in the law, but since when did consultations have any effect on legislation already in draft?

I also think DEFRA is nearly as unfit for purpose as the Home Office. I take comfort in the level of incompetence being such that we backyard keepers will be ignored / overlooked / forgotten soon. A few chickens in gardens here and there, widely scattered across the length and breadth of the country, in cities as well as the countryside, are not the same thing as a little over 100,000 livestock farms, all of whom are in regular contact with and receipt of payment from various govt sources.

It's easy to kill confined animals; in the case of poultry sheds, they just turn off the ventilators and the birds die of heat exhaustion soon thereafter. Takes longer to dispose of the carcasses. Box ticked, target met. If I'm wrong, and people did actually show up with culling in mind, my free range flock can be relied on to run away and hide from any stranger setting foot on the property, so they'd have to catch them first .

And we can also just refuse to co-operate. Officials often rely on our co-operation, and are none the wiser by its omission and discombobulated by defiance. You could just not bother to register, and shrug your shoulders with a "sorry Gov' didn't know" if and when anyone comes knocking (likely never).

 

[Mid Wales chicken keeper]

yes I do remember it, and I think govt often take a sledgehammer to crack a nut. The vast majority of the mortality figures for H5N1 here are the result of culling, not death by disease, and personally I do not think we should be doing anything to protect the industrial chicken sector; overcrowded sheds of broiler chicks and laying hens are the principal breeding ground for these diseases in the first place. And I too opined for no change in the law, but since when did consultations have any effect on legislation already in draft?

I also think DEFRA is nearly as unfit for purpose as the Home Office. I take comfort in the level of incompetence being such that we backyard keepers will be ignored / overlooked / forgotten soon. A few chickens in gardens here and there, widely scattered across the length and breadth of the country, in cities as well as the countryside, are not the same thing as a little over 100,000 livestock farms, all of whom are in regular contact with and receipt of payment from various govt sources.

It's easy to kill confined animals; in the case of poultry sheds, they just turn off the ventilators and the birds die of heat exhaustion soon thereafter. Takes longer to dispose of the carcasses. Box ticked, target met. If I'm wrong, and people did actually show up with culling in mind, my free range flock can be relied on to run away and hide from any stranger setting foot on the property, so they'd have to catch them first .

And we can also just refuse to co-operate. Officials often rely on our co-operation, and are none the wiser by its omission and discombobulated by defiance. You could just not bother to register, and shrug your shoulders with a "sorry Gov' didn't know" if and when anyone comes knocking (likely never).

Hi Perris, spot on as always, I wonder if when we go to buy chicken feed/supplies after 1st Oct, will we be asked for identification?

 

[Perris]

Hi Perris, spot on as always, I wonder if when we go to buy chicken feed/supplies after 1st Oct, will we be asked for identification?

well if you are, there's another good reason not to buy commercial chicken feed! Feed wheat and pea mixes are your solution

 

[SourRoses]

Although it's a different country and all that... over here there has been a lot of culling of backyard flocks, so it might serve as an example of what could happen, and why people might be right to worry.

Here, when a flock or commercial outfit tests positive, ALL domestic Fowl within a certain distance are culled. The distance depends on the state / county. At least one was posted as 2 miles.
That's someone knocking on your door "The guy up the road tested positive so we're going to cull your flock."
No tests or symptoms needed.
It's not an annual inspection which is such a big deal, but what they do when there's an outbreak nearby. It's whether you as a flock owner have any right to get testing done before they are culled. And don't expect compensation for your losses.

There was a horrible story on here last spring from a lady whose flock did have some sick birds, and they came out to cull, the workers didn't know a lot about killing chickens humanely. She had to catch all her birds and hand them over one by one to be killed inside a trash can. Of course in her case it was necessary, but there were some mistakes and she was very traumatized.

Over here, as it stands, they only know about backyard flocks from the NPIP program and certain jurisdictions requiring permits. But once they roll personnel to deal with an outbreak they're going to check the records and see who has chickens or other fowl. That's what a database is for. And why I would not sign up for one here.

 

[Burnsworthy]

Although it's a different country and all that... over here there has been a lot of culling of backyard flocks, so it might serve as an example of what could happen, and why people might be right to worry.

Here, when a flock or commercial outfit tests positive, ALL domestic Fowl within a certain distance are culled. The distance depends on the state / county. At least one was posted as 2 miles.
That's someone knocking on your door "The guy up the road tested positive so we're going to cull your flock."
No tests or symptoms needed.
It's not an annual inspection which is such a big deal, but what they do when there's an outbreak nearby. It's whether you as a flock owner have any right to get testing done before they are culled. And don't expect compensation for your losses.

There was a horrible story on here last spring from a lady whose flock did have some sick birds, and they came out to cull, the workers didn't know a lot about killing chickens humanely. She had to catch all her birds and hand them over one by one to be killed inside a trash can. Of course in her case it was necessary, but there were some mistakes and she was very traumatized.

Over here, as it stands, they only know about backyard flocks from the NPIP program and certain jurisdictions requiring permits. But once they roll personnel to deal with an outbreak they're going to check the records and see who has chickens or other fowl. That's what a database is for. And why I would not sign up for one here.

Jeez. That sounds horrific. Understandable if effective I suppose.Can anyone link me to a source that says that killing domestic birds while leaving alive every other wild bird in the area makes a blind bit of difference?

 

[AGeese]

I wouldn't underestimate any government's capability to do wrong by its citizens. Especially when there's lots of money and power involved. Hopefully things over there are just as simple as said or you'll be fighting for your rights back.

 

[Shadrach]

I wouldn't underestimate any government's capability to do wrong by its citizens. Especially when there's lots of money and power involved. Hopefully things over there are just as simple as said or you'll be fighting for your rights back.

We don't have any rights over here.

 

[Perris]

Please read this; it's from 2022 when the disease was still an issue.
https://www.theguardian.com/environ...lling-of-140m-farmed-birds-since-last-october

There are a lot of people involved at the top who think culling is not a good way to deal with such diseases. Those who are worried should try to find some figures for exactly how many backyard birds have been culled by officials in this latest H5N1 outbreak and what sort of percentage of all keepers they represent. Is this a real threat or a vanishingly unlikely one?

It is, btw, essentially over now. The whole UK has just moved to low risk status. Wild and domestic birds are acquiring immunity to it, as normal.