Unemployment almost 10% nationally

[Dunkopf]

Thanks Vfem for the real low down. Snopes is a good bi-partisan site for finding out what is true or what is pure BS.

As usual ON you are right on.

 

[EweSheep]

Quote:
Ewe,
In no way could I swallow more taxes on the ailing middle class/working class!!!!!
I see the level of income disparity as the problem.
IMO plenty of other ways to raise money (Like your suggestions) and folks to tax in the growing upper income bracket. The problems is the disparity between what executives make and what the workers make.

I am a living example. If I did not have my executive years with a high income I would not be able to survive now, with what I saved. My spouse and I both make about $10 an hour working a little less than full time. (Hard to get full time jobs these days, companies do not want to pay benefits. so they keep people at under 40 hours a week..) (I am self employed so I am at the will of what the market will bear for what produce.)

I am saying if we did not have zero debt we would be falling behind at our income level with two boys ages 4 and 7.. We buy used cloths off ebay, my truck is a 99, we grow a significant portion of our food and yet we live month to month with our income even though we have zero debt.
----
On India. It is probably, a good idea to maintain and nurture good relationships with a fellow Nuclear power, and a country with one of the biggest work forces in the world. A President of the United States of America, one who is responsible for the "Red phone" aught to be protected and travel with security.... Plenty of places to cut spending other than compromising the security of the President of the United Sates of America....

ON

Yes it is tough to swallow, we will be getting more taxes taken out for our schools and our governor....such dim news. We also got soda and candy taxes as well. UGH!

Hubby makes ten dollars an hour, it is still descent wages for an non union company. However his federal tax is less taken out than his state tax. More out for SS taxes. No 401K taken out just yet. Health and dental insurance taken out as well. There is three of us, our dd is six years old going to private school because our public school education sucks and not challenging enough for dd.

Yep like you, in the last seven years being in the low $20,000 a year income TOTAL, we had to visit food pantries, gifts from relatives, going to Salv Army for clothes and dont buy what we don't need. We did not qualify food stamps because hubby makes $5 to $50 dollars too much.

Dont any thing qualify living wages what we take home? Don't figure the total amount we earned with taxes...it gives false security and they don't know how much extra stuff had to be taken out for taxes, insurances, child support, alimoney, etc. etc. and you dont bring home that kind of money in your pocket and yet, can not get the help. Something is wrong here! Why they have to determine that on that scale than is to figure out how much we are bringing home?

Oh yeah, I agree, that we dont want to compromise the security of our president but he could have flown in a Lear jet with AF aircrafts as protection. Would that be cheaper? I dont mind presidents going over there to do some business like buying our CAT trucks for mining businesses, providing computer jobs or services, food or grocery businesses, manufacturing businesses, etc so the Americans can get back on their feet to be employed and stay employed.


I dont always believe everything on the news or online...just the LIVE reports from the president or his staff. What we hear is what we can interpretate any way we want to hear and have sources to back that up. Some of the reporters do ask some hard questions to the president, seeking some answers...what if President can not give an straight answer? Is he in a pickle or he simply just don't have the answers without his staff cabinet conferences?

 

[cmjust0]

Quote:
That's a very, very naive view, IMHO.. I mean, do you *really* think that's all that's preventing the US from being able to compete with places like China and India?

I know people from India. I've asked people from India about their middle class standard of living.. I was told that you're considered to be doing pretty well if you can afford to buy a whole bag of rice per week. A bag of rice a week is "a good living" in India. It requires US$2-$3/day in wages.. If you're making US$9-$10/day, which is about what a university educated software engineer is paid, you're considered upper middle class..

Now...do you honestly believe dropping minimum wage and other regulations is going to allow the US to become competitive with a country where upper middle class is $10/day?

What do you suggest to remedy the problem? Prohibiting companies from moving overseas? Great, if you don't mind making them go bankrupt, or their prices increasing exponentially. Preventing imports from China? Congrats, the cost of living goes from high to crazy insane high.

So far, I have seen no other viable remedies that won't kill the economy and make everything more expensive.

Well...we could have worked toward shifting the global economy from one based on oil to one based on power from green, environmentally-friendly technology by investing in such technology -- in the US private sector -- and then begun to export such technology to the rest of the world (cash only, please.

) but no...a certain group of oil-stained politicians has consistently seen to it that we won't be doing that.

 

[Q9]

Quote:
That's a very, very naive view, IMHO.. I mean, do you *really* think that's all that's preventing the US from being able to compete with places like China and India?

I know people from India. I've asked people from India about their middle class standard of living.. I was told that you're considered to be doing pretty well if you can afford to buy a whole bag of rice per week. A bag of rice a week is "a good living" in India. It requires US$2-$3/day in wages.. If you're making US$9-$10/day, which is about what a university educated software engineer is paid, you're considered upper middle class..

Now...do you honestly believe dropping minimum wage and other regulations is going to allow the US to become competitive with a country where upper middle class is $10/day?

What do you suggest to remedy the problem? Prohibiting companies from moving overseas? Great, if you don't mind making them go bankrupt, or their prices increasing exponentially. Preventing imports from China? Congrats, the cost of living goes from high to crazy insane high.

So far, I have seen no other viable remedies that won't kill the economy and make everything more expensive.

Well...we could have worked toward shifting the global economy from one based on oil to one based on power from green, environmentally-friendly technology by investing in such technology -- in the US private sector -- and then begun to export such technology to the rest of the world (cash only, please.

) but no...a certain group of oil-stained politicians has consistently seen to it that we won't be doing that.

Of course that's not ALL, but they are a serious factor. Inevitably, too, in developing nations, competition will force wages up - it's already happening, albeit slowly, in China. Speaking of which, China is Communist in name only - right now it's just your average tyrranical government. Communism says, "NO private property, all belongs to the State." Obviously, the only reason China hasn't imploded like the USSR did is because it is slowly giving up actual Communist doctrine.

I see your point, but energy is just one part of a huge economy. The basic idea is right, though, as the US right now would be more oriented to high-tech and computer industries, just look at companies like Microsoft. High-tech, certain manufacturing industries, and agriculture. If the government would stop screwing around with the economy, we would be able to compete thanks to our abundance of our own products to trade on a global scale.

 

[knjinnm]

Quote:
That's a very, very naive view, IMHO.. I mean, do you *really* think that's all that's preventing the US from being able to compete with places like China and India?

I know people from India. I've asked people from India about their middle class standard of living.. I was told that you're considered to be doing pretty well if you can afford to buy a whole bag of rice per week. A bag of rice a week is "a good living" in India. It requires US$2-$3/day in wages.. If you're making US$9-$10/day, which is about what a university educated software engineer is paid, you're considered upper middle class..

Now...do you honestly believe dropping minimum wage and other regulations is going to allow the US to become competitive with a country where upper middle class is $10/day?

What do you suggest to remedy the problem? Prohibiting companies from moving overseas? Great, if you don't mind making them go bankrupt, or their prices increasing exponentially. Preventing imports from China? Congrats, the cost of living goes from high to crazy insane high.

So far, I have seen no other viable remedies that won't kill the economy and make everything more expensive.

Well...we could have worked toward shifting the global economy from one based on oil to one based on power from green, environmentally-friendly technology by investing in such technology -- in the US private sector -- and then begun to export such technology to the rest of the world (cash only, please.

) but no...a certain group of oil-stained politicians has consistently seen to it that we won't be doing that.

Just what we need a culture where labor costs drops to 50 cents/hour and you get to live in a company dormitory.
The reason companies go overseas is POLLUTION COSTS and new plant and equipment.
If a company like wal-mart tells a manufacturer they can significantly lower costs with new equipment in China, paid for by China, and they won't have to worry about clean air or water regulations, shipping costs will be off set by lower wages, no benefits to worry about then wal-mart will buy from them to save 10 cents on a pair of cotton socks. BTW, China grows cotton.
So Americans lose all the way around.

 

[knjinnm]

Quote:
That's a very, very naive view, IMHO.. I mean, do you *really* think that's all that's preventing the US from being able to compete with places like China and India?

I know people from India. I've asked people from India about their middle class standard of living.. I was told that you're considered to be doing pretty well if you can afford to buy a whole bag of rice per week. A bag of rice a week is "a good living" in India. It requires US$2-$3/day in wages.. If you're making US$9-$10/day, which is about what a university educated software engineer is paid, you're considered upper middle class..

Now...do you honestly believe dropping minimum wage and other regulations is going to allow the US to become competitive with a country where upper middle class is $10/day?

What do you suggest to remedy the problem? Prohibiting companies from moving overseas? Great, if you don't mind making them go bankrupt, or their prices increasing exponentially. Preventing imports from China? Congrats, the cost of living goes from high to crazy insane high.

So far, I have seen no other viable remedies that won't kill the economy and make everything more expensive.

Well...we could have worked toward shifting the global economy from one based on oil to one based on power from green, environmentally-friendly technology by investing in such technology -- in the US private sector -- and then begun to export such technology to the rest of the world (cash only, please.

) but no...a certain group of oil-stained politicians has consistently seen to it that we won't be doing that.

Of course that's not ALL, but they are a serious factor. Inevitably, too, in developing nations, competition will force wages up - it's already happening, albeit slowly, in China. Speaking of which, China is Communist in name only - right now it's just your average tyrranical government. Communism says, "NO private property, all belongs to the State." Obviously, the only reason China hasn't imploded like the USSR did is because it is slowly giving up actual Communist doctrine.

I see your point, but energy is just one part of a huge economy. The basic idea is right, though, as the US right now would be more oriented toc and computer industries, just look at companies like Microsoft. High-tech, certain manufacturing industries, and agriculture. If the government would stop screwing around with the economy, we would be able to compete thanks to our abundance of our own products to trade on a global scale.

How is the government "screwing around with the economy" besides subsidies to oil, coal, agriculture, drug companies, insurance companies (Medicare part D), two wars, 900+ foreign military bases, star wars missile defense, F-22, F-35, ship the navy doesn't want or need .... while at the same time de-funds education which prevents the U.S. from becoming a high-tech economy.

 

[rufus]

Quote:
Your family must be pretty wealth if they had to sell land to pay their estate tax.
Give us the details.

No, we were dirt poor. Our family had acquired land back in the 1920's, and the value had appreciated. The death taxes broke us. Family businesses are destroyed by the death taxes.

And the question of wealthy people enjoying their portfolio, one person can only eat so many beans. After that, the wealth is put to work invested in industry and business. When we destroy or waste our national wealth, we destroy the means of production. Jobs are created by investment. It does little good to educate people and provide health care if there is no industry to employ them.

Hunger hurts no matter how educated one is.

For years countries like India produced educated people, but could not provide employment for them because the government was antagonistic toward capitalism. Generations of skilled people emigrated taking their education and ideas with them.

Now, India and China have seen the light.

Rufus

 

[rufus]

How is the government screwing around with the economy? Well getting the Fed to buy $600 billion in US securities so that they can "pump up" the economy is one way. This will produce a tremendous inflation. Once a government starts inflating the currency, it does not stop until everyone is ruined.

And China is sitting on all of that US currency. Once they see what is happening, they will dump the dollar like a hot rock. Remember the hyperinflation of the German currency in 1923? It amounts to a national bankruptcy.

Rufus

 

[awesomefowl]

Quote:
Of course that's not ALL, but they are a serious factor. Inevitably, too, in developing nations, competition will force wages up - it's already happening, albeit slowly, in China. Speaking of which, China is Communist in name only - right now it's just your average tyrranical government. Communism says, "NO private property, all belongs to the State." Obviously, the only reason China hasn't imploded like the USSR did is because it is slowly giving up actual Communist doctrine.

I see your point, but energy is just one part of a huge economy. The basic idea is right, though, as the US right now would be more oriented toc and computer industries, just look at companies like Microsoft. High-tech, certain manufacturing industries, and agriculture. If the government would stop screwing around with the economy, we would be able to compete thanks to our abundance of our own products to trade on a global scale.

How is the government "screwing around with the economy" besides subsidies to oil, coal, agriculture, drug companies, insurance companies (Medicare part D), two wars, 900+ foreign military bases, star wars missile defense, F-22, F-35, ship the navy doesn't want or need .... while at the same time de-funds education which prevents the U.S. from becoming a high-tech economy.

Our government, like all governments in history, is inflating the economy by giving out money to big companies. Plus, no one knows what the real value of our dollars our because in 1965 they got rid of the gold and silver backing it up, so they could keep inflating. (this is against the constitution--see sectin 10, article I, 1st paragraph)

Putting more money in the economy to try to "fix" it doesn't work. Like the stimulus money. Keep the gov't out of the economy, and it will fix itself.

 

[RabbitMage]

Quote:
I think I could use an example for this, because I keep trying to think of ways for this to work. Are there any countries doing this now, where gov't and economy are totally separate? Do they have taxes? Public services?