Vaccinations & Worming

[deerman]

i worm mine 3 times a year, because i know they pick up worms, from eating earthworms ,and other bugs,, Safe guard doesn't prevent worms, but remove ones they have, reason you need to retreat after 10 days to remove any new worms that have hatch.
now ivomec, does both remove worms , it will also prevent new worms for up to 30 days. So i say ivomec can be use as a preventive for worm, ,just like frontline is for fleas for dogs.


I don't treat for blackhead, but don't let my peafowl around chickens, so far never had blackhead.


Don't vaccinate mine.

 

[Kedreeva]

Yes, Deerman... you are correct, and a good mention of the reworming after 10 days.

For anyone not aware, the first worming you do kills adults and juveniles. The second worming 10 days later kills the eggs that hatched from the adults you killed before they become breeding adults. This clears your bird's system of the whole load of parasites and on a very short term scale (the half life of the drug a couple times over until it becomes ineffective as a stunning or killing agent) will "prevent" reinfestation. It's certainly not close to a six month or one year span of protection though, and I would hate for anyone to drop their guard watching for worms because they think they've wormed and thus completely prevented their birds from getting worms for months ahead.

Ivermectin is present in both heartworm medications for dogs and ivomec as a wormer, but it does have a short half life (16-22 hours typically) and most people are not using it every 30 days as a preventative- I know I don't, though it is my wormer of choice when I do worm. Most other wormers have a shorter half life or do not come bound with chemicals that will cause the drug to act as a preventative for a period of time past its effective half life.

 

[DMFarm]

Kedreeva
I know how wormer work when I say I use them to prevent worms that what I mean. Wormer will not kill the worm eggs you have to kill them as they hatch out. Peachicks has to be wormed more often than adults. We worm all of our peachicks one a month if the ground is wet there will more chance they will get worms we worms them ever 3 weeks. If you wait 2 to 3 months to worm the peachicks you will lose several to worms. My breeder are wormed 3 to 4 times a year depending on how wet it is that year. I have been doing this for years and this is how the top well know breeder in the US worms his peachicks. How long have you been raising peafowl and how many chicks have you ever raised ?

 

[Kedreeva]

I could raise zero birds or chicks and still know how wormer works, it does not take years of experience with peafowl to know science. You were saying you wormed twice a year as a preventative so they wouldn't get worms ever, and now you've changed your tune to say you worm because they have worms and you have to get rid of eggs, so whatever. I'm not arguing with you if you can't even keep your story straight.

By the way, how is it even possible you are telling me I'm wrong when you just basically agreed in your last post that wormers kill worms as opposed to providing prolonged protection from catching them like you were saying earlier?

 

[Glenmar]

I have a 9 week old chick in a horse stall with stall mats and pine shavings on the floor. Do I need to deworm that chick now?
I have some safeguard for horses paste. Can I put a strip of that in its beak?

 

[6littlechickies]

IVERMECTIN half life mentioned may be for humans, but as a pharmaceutical chemist who makes these kind of things I can tell you the half life is longer, much longer 2-5 days in other species of mammals. Birds also have a longer 1/2 life but can be overdosed more easily than mammals. The administration also counts a lot, as oral has a much shorter half life than pour on which can have a half life of 2+ weeks. This is not 6 months, but will carry out for a while if dosed properly. Ivermectin is a preventative treatment your vet prescribes every day to prevent parasites on the dogs so I don't know how they are shaking their heads...Immiticide is the heartworm cure and the meds given monthly are the preventative. When talking of wormers as a preventative, the 2nd worming is more preventative, as it is targeting worms that are just hatching and not yet reproductive. DM worms his peachicks to prevent adult worms from becoming a problem, i.e. preventing a worm infestation and breaking the cycle of getting worms and having eggs dropped all over the pen in fecal matter for chicks. DM is mentioning the beginning life cycle stage, so the bird does not have to have worms to get eggs and this is what he said he was targeting, eggs as soon as they hatch out. The eggs could have been ingested by the bird through intermediate hosts or in fecal matter. This I would consider preventative use of the meds as there is not yet a positive for worms but rather ensuring they do not become positive. Now for breeders, who are more immune (tolerant may be a better word) to worms we worm 3 times a year at least and sometimes more. We consider this preventative as it kills any worms some may have, breaks the cycle and helps birds who do not have worms by way of less eggs being ingested through fecal matter in the pens as the birds pick around. If you can tell your bird has worms, you have problems and then I believe it is an indicated treatment. Peafowl generally don't show illness until they are in pretty bad shape.

Everyone look at it this way, it all depends on how its used....If I am diabetic and take insulin before eating a big desert, am I preventing a diabetic coma? Yes, preventative use, could also be termed maintenance use. If I don't and eat the desert, get sick and then take the insulin, it is an indicated use to treat the current symptom. Just how you look at it. If someone worms regularly then it is preventative, not for cause. If someone worms only through seeing a sick or withering bird then it is for cause and curative in nature.


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[Kedreeva]

You are right, 6littlechickies, and that's the proper use of the term preventative. If you check my first post I said "When you worm your birds, you're not -preventing- them from getting worms... you're preventing them from getting a heavy enough load of worms to kill them." I was then "corrected" by someone saying "Worming is done to prevent them from getting worms. You don't want to wait till they get worms to worm them by that time alot of damage is done." This implies that when you worm, the span between wormings is protected from a reinfestation and that they won't get worms between the wormings for the meds to kill. I did not want anyone new to assume this was true. If that's not what he meant, it wasn't clear.

What I DON'T want to see is someone coming to the site looking for an answer about worming that we all SHOULD be able to provide in the correct capacity, finding a post like that and assuming that worming your birds protects them for 6 months, and stop watching their birds for signs of a worm infestation. How bad would any of us feel if someone lost a bird to this and it could have been prevented by having the correct information on the thread? I don't care who is right or wrong, as long as the correct information is available for people to understand.

And IF DMFarm was implying that the worming at 6 months is a preventative for the hatching eggs of a new infestation, then ok, that could be a preventative. But that wasn't stated in his first posts, and couldn't be assumed by anything he said by someone who doesn't know. It would be nice if your birds only picked up eggs two weeks before your four to six month worming cycle comes to an end for the next worming so that they only ever got eggs and not a real infestation, but let's be honest... our birds probably pick them up literally as soon as the half life of the drug stops killing them, which in most cases is a shorter time than the span between wormings.

 

[Choctaw Valley Farm]

I think if I were a Moderator I'd block this thread, looks like everyones right and wrong it's not going anywhere. Everyone is saying the samething just in there own way.

 

[6littlechickies]

Quote:
This is true and everyone agrees that worming is generally in the best interest of the birds and practices are best suited by each owner for the particular circumstances.

 

[Kedreeva]

Well, I think we don't need a moderator to block it. We are adults after all, and can agree to agree or disagree as needed and end discussions of our own accord.