venting a coop using a pipe and keeping the coop warm

[Notaneggspurt]

@brksmith I totally get the "language" barrier!

As far as the older reading material available on the internet it's been like trying to work on a puzzle that someone threw the box away for. Most of the tidbits I've found have been minor references on blogs or a snippet in an out of date book. Sometimes a name will get referenced that will lead to another rabbit hole that usually ends in frustration at not being able to find more information.

I'm about to make a trip up to the "big city" just to get access to a larger library with a reference section. As great as the internet is there is little demand on creating e-books for such specific material.

You'll find lots of great info on here to help with selecting a breed and such. Plus plenty of nice folks to chat chickens with. Thank you for bringing up an interesting topic! I'll have to dig through my bookmarks and try to find some of the older reference material I was able to find.

 

[WindingRoad]

In the 1907 book "Poultry Architecture - A Practical Guide for Construction of Poultry Houses, Coops and Yards", George B Fiske states a couple of things that seem to be contradictory to a couple of mainstream current ideas that I'm finding both in current books and on this site and others. I'm trying to figure out which side of the fence I'm going to land on when I build my coop, and am honestly thinking that these old recommendations seem to make more sense. So I'm going to put this out and ask for people to give any reaction or links to agriculture research reports that might support or contradict these ideas.

#1: Actually, everything I’d read until Fiske’s book talks about ventilating the coop at the top, near the roof. On page 13, Fiske notes that the plans he is reviewing have ventilation at the top of the roof, and says, “… this system of ventilation is defective. As has been frequently explained, the proper way to ventilate a poultry house is by means of a shaft running from within a few inches of the floor to several feet above the roof. Thus a draft is created that draws up the cold air and bad odors from near the ground, while the warm air at the top is thus brought down and the fowls are kept much warmer than would be the case if a hole in the roof let out all the warm air.”

Does anyone have a ventilation shaft like Fiske discusses? I’m looking for folks with hands-on experience had with this setup: Does it work well? What size shaft is needed? Should the part of the shaft that is above the roof have any particular construction details to make the drafting work better? And I was also wondering if there is any research that is more recent than this indicating that this is not correct.



#2: There is current disagreement about warming coops in the cold weather. But it seems like most people feel that chickens should not be in insulated or heated coops. The arguments are persuasive: If the hens are allowed to keep cold, they will develop better layers of feathers to warm themselves in the winter, but if they are kept warm they will not have this protective feathering and will be susceptible to failures that might occur if something happens to turn off the heat (power failure for example). Also, there is the risk of fire that is noted with the common use of heat lamps when the clamp fails and there is no protective cage or other mechanism to keep the bulb from landing on the floor of the coop.

I live in Michigan, and we get some pretty bad cold weather in winter. I live in a city, and the only chicken keepers that I know are neighbors that I chicken-sit for on their vacations. They had a small plastic koop against their house, and then purchased a wooden coop from one of the big box stores. Fall gave way to winter, and the hens ended up not having that protective layer of feathers (or not enough). The lost significant weight and caught ‘colds’, and my neighbor ended up selling the wooden coop and returning the girls to the little plastic one. I know the ‘big box’ store coops are pretty flimsy, but this event made me think that we really do need insulation and heating here.

Fiske notes in his book on page 5:

“It has been left for the West Virginia experiment station to determine just how much difference there would be in egg production between similar flocks kept in warm and cold houses. Two houses, built exactly alike and situated side by side, were selected for the experiment, in each of which were placed twelve pullets. One house had previously been sheathed on the inside and covered with paper to make it perfectly tight. Both were boarded with matched siding and shingle roofs. The fowls were fed alike in each case. The morning mash consisted of corn meal, ground middlings and ground oats, and at night whole grain was scattered in the litter. They also had fresh water, grit and bone and granulated bone. The experiment started November 24 and continued for five months. The following table shows the number of eggs laid during each period of thirty days :”

The results he lists did not paste well, but the outcome was:
Month 1: 87 eggs warm house / 39 eggs cold house
Month 2: 130 eggs warm / 106 eggs cold
Month 3: 138 warm / 103 cold
Month 4: 120 warm / 124 cold
Month 5: 154 warm / 114 cold
TOTAL: 629 warm / 486 cold

Fiske then states, “The experiment clearly indicates that it is important to build warm and substantial houses for winter egg production. In very cold climates special pains should be taken to make the roosting place warm.”

I know that the "warm house" in this experiment didn’t have substantial insulation, but it still suggests to me that with all other things being equal, the warmer chickens were more able to do their normal things (laying eggs) than their cold chicken counterparts.

Does anyone know of any research that supports either side of this argument? I’m looking at using 4 inches of insulation in the walls, floor and ceiling, plus a solar powered warmer with battery backups.

Thanks for your input! I’m hoping to not start any arguments or create any bad feelings. And instead of focusing on what people believe and have heard, I’d like to focus on any applicable research into these questions, or any actual personal experiences with chickens that would be useful.

Thanks so much! Barb

I have a prefab hen house. A coop with a run. Got it at TSC. Boooo Hisss. The roof has adequate ventilation.And I keep it clear of snow do the venting doesn't get blocked. I've done nothing to the coop except having a good layer of pine shaving and PDZ. The other night it was -20F. I have a heavy clear tarp around the run for wind protection read drafts. And I have the house banked up about 2 feet. Snow is a wonderful insulator. The coop is 3x3 with 4 birds in there. 3 nest boxes.

Do you have wild birds around your house. Crows maybe or bluejays. They have no shelter at night unless they might be perching in an evergreen and they seem to do well. Chickens are hardy you'll be surprised at what temps they can tolerate. I had my chickens out on the snow at -9F eating breakfast recently.

BTW I'm getting 4 eggs most days. And my 2 SLW are 22 weeks old and have only been laying for about 2-3 weeks. All this science is getting old. Just do what nature does. She's been doing it for along time. She might have it figured out. I don't do any thing to fancy.

 

[Alaskan]

I live in Michigan, and we get some pretty bad cold weather in winter. I live in a city, and the only chicken keepers that I know are neighbors that I chicken-sit for on their vacations. They had a small plastic koop against their house, and then purchased a wooden coop from one of the big box stores. Fall gave way to winter, and the hens ended up not having that protective layer of feathers (or not enough). The lost significant weight and caught ‘colds’, and my neighbor ended up selling the wooden coop and returning the girls to the little plastic one. I know the ‘big box’ store coops are pretty flimsy, but this event made me think that we really do need insulation and heating here.

I find that often when chickens get a 'cold' it is because there wasn't enough ventilation, it has nothing to do with the cold.


Often weight loss is not just from the cold, but a lack of light. They only eat when they have enough light, if the days are too short, they do not eat enough. Not enough feed combined with cold equals weight loss.

Does anyone know of any research that supports either side of this argument? I’m looking at using 4 inches of insulation in the walls, floor and ceiling, plus a solar powered warmer with battery backups.

Insulation does help, but you NEED to make sure it is rodent proof. My one insulated coop I wrapped the framing in hardware cloth while building. As a result zero rodents in the coop.

If you cannot make the insulation rodent free then skip it.

Are there any interesting old writings that you found that you would recommend reading? I'd love to read any current research on small scale home chicken keeping

Read the stuff on Open air poultry housing by Woods.

Good info.

Wait.... I think you had other questions... what were they?

 

[Alaskan]

Sorry, haven't tried the pipe in a coop thing... sounds interesting.

But yeah... I hate up high ventilation. (Unless you have not summers)

I like the ventilation right under the poop shelves.

 

[Notaneggspurt]

I used this link to find some authors and different titles to search for:
https://www.nal.usda.gov/exhibits/ipd/frostonchickens/items/show/179
And clicked through the random pop ups on what they have on display at the library.

I'm hoping to include a trip to a big used book store Ann's see if I find any nuggets.

 

[Rose Quartz]

I used this link to find some authors and different titles to search for:
https://www.nal.usda.gov/exhibits/ipd/frostonchickens/items/show/179
And clicked through the random pop ups on what they have on display at the library.

I'm hoping to include a trip to a big used book store Ann's see if I find any nuggets.

I've been looking for a copy of that woods style coop book for years oh my goodness THANKYOU!

 

[Notaneggspurt]

I've been looking for a copy of that woods style coop book for years oh my goodness THANKYOU!

I sure do love how books used to look.
I'm hoping to find one of these in good condition.
https://archive.org/details/americanstandard00ameriala/page/4

 

[Rose Quartz]

View attachment 1646259
I sure do love how books used to look.
I'm hoping to find one of these in good condition.
https://archive.org/details/americanstandard00ameriala/page/4

you have all the good books.

 

[aart]

Does anyone have a ventilation shaft like Fiske discusses? I’m looking for folks with hands-on experience had with this setup: Does it work well? What size shaft is needed?

Was there no dimensions of drawings for this shaft in Fiske's writings?
It makes sense that it could direct air up and out. There have been discussions here about moist ammonia laden air is light and will float up and out higher vents.
I imagine scale of facility has a lot to do with how to vent...as well as climate and site specific conditions.
Welcome to BYC! I see you've been lurking, so welcome 'out of the closet'
Where in MI are you?
Check out the Michigan Chat thread, it's not real active, but....

I've been looking for a copy of that woods style coop book for years oh my goodness THANKYOU

You must not have searched too hard here on BYC, that link is in most of the Woods threads.
@jthornton has cleaned it up and made a PDF that is easier to read than the online versions.

 

[Rose Quartz]

Was there no dimensions of drawings for this shaft in Fiske's writings?
It makes sense that it could direct air up and out. There have been discussions here about moist ammonia laden air is light and will float up and out higher vents.
I imagine scale of facility has a lot to do with how to vent...as well as climate and site specific conditions.
Welcome to BYC! I see you've been lurking, so welcome 'out of the closet'
Where in MI are you?
Check out the Michigan Chat thread, it's not real active, but....


You must not have searched too hard here on BYC, that link is in most of the Woods threads.
@jthornton has cleaned it up and made a PDF that is easier to read than the online versions.

Ive seen pieces of it here but not the whole thing before.