Vet is Stumped: Very Sick Runner Duck Advice Needed ASAP

[Kiki]

They all got some grains in the cold weather. Henny Penny makes a scratch grain mix.

The 'some grains' were fed daily?
Are the scratch grains feed daily too?

Overweightness happens easily in birds and before we even notice with our eyes.
Reproductive issues happen in birds that are on the heavy side.

Daily treats leads to overweightness quick.

I'm not saying this is what started your girl's downward spiral but if you feed treats often I'd suggest you think about stopping.

 

[Lizzy733]

Limping can be an indicator of abdominal pain, for future reference. Usually, liver and kidney issues will present with a gradual yellowing of the urates from their typical white all the way up to bright tumeric yellow once it's more advanced and they're getting close to organ failure.

Its definitely a tricky thing to pin down once their organs start failing, and I'm not very familiar with duck breed characteristics, but could she have been from a poor background genetically, or are runners bred to be short-lived?

I know with chickens, it's very hard to outrun a genetic disposition for self destruction.

We're her fecal samples ok? Nothing extreme there aside from the bacterial infection?

When there are other things going on, they essentially become immunosuppressed, allowing what would typically be a rather mild infection to run amok and cause lots of damage.

I had an anemic hen (1 year old) that ended up with necrotic enteritis from coccidia, of all things - the thought from our exotics vet was that something else was going on that allowed the coccidia to get out of control.

We didn't do a necropsy - she was a pet and the rest of the flock were healthy. I had my suspicions about her breeder though - she made it the longest out if all her hatchmates, but they all had weird things wrong with them from the start. Pretty sure there was a bit too much inbreeding going on.

 

[MisaF]

The 'some grains' were fed daily?
Are the scratch grains feed daily too?

Overweightness happens easily in birds and before we even notice with our eyes.
Reproductive issues happen in birds that are on the heavy side.

Daily treats leads to overweightness quick.

I'm not saying this is what started your girl's downward spiral but if you feed treats often I'd suggest you think about stopping.

She wasn’t overweight (per the vet, because I’m not sure I would have noticed) and she also wasn’t a fan of the scratch grains either. She didn’t usually pay any attention to them. She did like her mealworms though. That was the only treat she got. That’s all any of them got. No one has gotten any mealworms since Ducken died so treats have stopped completely around here.

 

[MisaF]

Limping can be an indicator of abdominal pain, for future reference. Usually, liver and kidney issues will present with a gradual yellowing of the urates from their typical white all the way up to bright tumeric yellow once it's more advanced and they're getting close to organ failure.

Its definitely a tricky thing to pin down once their organs start failing, and I'm not very familiar with duck breed characteristics, but could she have been from a poor background genetically, or are runners bred to be short-lived?

I know with chickens, it's very hard to outrun a genetic disposition for self destruction.

We're her fecal samples ok? Nothing extreme there aside from the bacterial infection?

When there are other things going on, they essentially become immunosuppressed, allowing what would typically be a rather mild infection to run amok and cause lots of damage.

I had an anemic hen (1 year old) that ended up with necrotic enteritis from coccidia, of all things - the thought from our exotics vet was that something else was going on that allowed the coccidia to get out of control.

We didn't do a necropsy - she was a pet and the rest of the flock were healthy. I had my suspicions about her breeder though - she made it the longest out if all her hatchmates, but they all had weird things wrong with them from the start. Pretty sure there was a bit too much inbreeding going on.

Her poop all seemed fine. Nothing out of the ordinary. She didn’t show any signs of limping until the end. That’s what prompted us to take her to the vet. She looked like she hurt her leg. I was no idea there was something else going on because up until then she was her usual self. She was running around with her buddies, taking baths in her pools and eating and drinking fine.
She was a rescue from neighbors who’s ducks were pretty inbreed. We ended up rescuing her mom and an uncle of hers too. Her mom is about 12 years old! All the ducks they had over the past 12 years came from the same original batch of ducks so inbreeding was definitely a thing.

 

[HollowOfWisps]

Did the vet mention anything about necrotic enteritis? It's actually very rare in poultry, but does happen and sounds a little like what showed up on the autopsy.
https://www.merckvetmanual.com/poultry/necrotic-enteritis/overview-of-necrotic-enteritis-in-poultry

 

[Lizzy733]

Her poop all seemed fine. Nothing out of the ordinary. She didn’t show any signs of limping until the end. That’s what prompted us to take her to the vet. She looked like she hurt her leg. I was no idea there was something else going on because up until then she was her usual self. She was running around with her buddies, taking baths in her pools and eating and drinking fine.
She was a rescue from neighbors who’s ducks were pretty inbreed. We ended up rescuing her mom and an uncle of hers too. Her mom is about 12 years old! All the ducks they had over the past 12 years came from the same original batch of ducks so inbreeding was definitely a thing.

I try to avoid inbreeding here if I can, but I also like having rare breeds. In NZ, importing to refresh bloodlines isn't really an option and there are a fair few backyard breeders that just get a breed from one supplier and let them go without asking questions about parentage or sourcing their roos elsewhere.

That red flag breeder I mentioned was only one generation in on breeding and couldn't really answer any of my questions about the genetics in her flock because she flat out didn't know their parentage before they came to her. I don't think it was intentional, she just didn't know any better... But her birds have suffered for it by now, I'm sure...

 

[MisaF]

Did the vet mention anything about necrotic enteritis? It's actually very rare in poultry, but does happen and sounds a little like what showed up on the autopsy.
https://www.merckvetmanual.com/poultry/necrotic-enteritis/overview-of-necrotic-enteritis-in-poultry

It sounds a lot like it but I don’t recall her using this name for it. Once we get the report I’ll know for sure. This sounds a lot like how it was described to us though. No other bird has had any issues even remotely similar. Other than a prolapsed penis in our very sexy call drake (which was prompted treated by the vet), everyone has been 100% fine and I’ve been watching them all closely. This sounds like it might be a flock wide problem?

 

[Lizzy733]

It sounds a lot like it but I don’t recall her using this name for it. Once we get the report I’ll know for sure. This sounds a lot like how it was described to us though. No other bird has had any issues even remotely similar. Other than a prolapsed penis in our very sexy call drake (which was prompted treated by the vet), everyone has been 100% fine and I’ve been watching them all closely. This sounds like it might be a flock wide problem?

Not necessarily, with my hen, the necrotic enteritis was due to that high load of coccidia - no one else ever fell ill, just her.

If you're worried, maybe have a 'flock representative' brought in for spot testing - fecal float and liver function to see if anything fishy comes up.

 

[MisaF]

Got some more specifics, egg yolk coelomitis & necrotic enteritis. What I don't understand is that other than her looking like she lost some weight she seemed OK right up until the end where she stopped wanting to stand up. I am out there with them every day, cleaning up poop every day and there was nothing out of the ordinary. I have no idea how the heck she was so sick and we didn't see it. She was still running around with her buddies, coming over for pets and love and acting like her usual self. From all I am reading on these things she should have been really sick with lots of signs but we didn't see any of them. This makes me feel like a horrible human. We spent time outside with them every day, watching them, caring for them. We know all their personalities well and she did not seem off up until the very end when it was clearly too late to do anything. I feel sick to my stomach.

 

[HollowOfWisps]

Got some more specifics, egg yolk coelomitis & necrotic enteritis. What I don't understand is that other than her looking like she lost some weight she seemed OK right up until the end where she stopped wanting to stand up. I am out there with them every day, cleaning up poop every day and there was nothing out of the ordinary. I have no idea how the heck she was so sick and we didn't see it. She was still running around with her buddies, coming over for pets and love and acting like her usual self. From all I am reading on these things she should have been really sick with lots of signs but we didn't see any of them. This makes me feel like a horrible human. We spent time outside with them every day, watching them, caring for them. We know all their personalities well and she did not seem off up until the very end when it was clearly too late to do anything. I feel sick to my stomach.

Don't beat yourself up. Ducks hide ailments very very well and often don't show signs until it's causing them a great deal of pain or discomfort. Even the vet didn't know for sure what was going on and they're the professional on the matter. You took her to the vet when you noticed something was off and that's more then what a lot of people will do for their ducks. Your ducks are lucky to have someone who is willing to go the extra mile for them