Victory for Tennesseans against NAIS

[lively Bee's]

Quote:
You have many bees in one hive. You don't have to file a report for the sale, purchase, death or movement of EACH individual bee.

Do you really want to have additional paperwork for each chicken, duck, turkey, goat, cow ...... in your possession? Are you able to afford a secretary to handle all the paperwork?

What if one of your birds goes "missing". You file the paperwork. Now said bird shows up with new chicks in tow. Well, now you get to file a new report stating "missing" bird now found. And don't forget a report for each of the chicks too! Wait! One died - another report. Whoops! two more kicked the bucket. Get busy on those reports. When does it finally push you into getting out of poultry? What makes you think that isn't exactly big poultry's hope?

Oh, and don't forget, you still have other animals that need taken care of and each requires reporting.

NO THANK YOU!! Although it may not seem so to Uncle Sam, I DO have a life outside of farming! And I don't want it filled with paperwork.

My 2 cents...
regards,
keljonma


http://nonais.org/

"You have many bees in one hive. You don't have to file a report for the sale, purchase, death or movement of EACH individual bee."

????????????????
Get real you buy and sell bees by packages, nucs, hive not by the bee how is it any different to report a hive v.s. report a chicken?????????????????????????????

If I have a hive that dies YES I report it
If I buy a hive YES i report it
If I sell a hive YES I report it


Have you even read the NAIS guid line?



Household pets (e.g., cats and dogs) and animals not listed in the paragraph above are not included.

For example, taking your animal on a trail ride with a neighbor, animals accidentally wandering off a premises, or moving livestock from pasture to pasture within your operation would pose a relatively low risk or impact of spreading disease. These types of movements are not the focus of the NAIS and, therefore are not reportable animal movement events. While risk of exposure to a disease and its spread is certainly possible for any movement (including local county fairs, parades, etc.), because these events are more localized, they have less potential impact on the spread of a disease than events where animals travel greater distances. From a disease standpoint, it would be unnecessary to report animal movements in such low-risk/impact situations. 10
10 Producers should check with their respective State and/or local animal health authority on existing requirements for animal movement reporting that are currently in place at that level and are not affected by NAIS.
46

Some animals do not need to be identified under NAIS, specifically animals that never engage in a reportable movement, due to the way they are reared. Such cases include:
• Animals that never leave the farm or are only moved directly to custom slaughter for personal consumption would not need to be identified in NAIS. In such cases, these movements have little impact on the potential spread of disease and the traceability, if necessary, is adequate. (State requirements for custom slaughter may differ from this Federal guidance.)
• Animals that do not leave their birth premises for reportable movements and that die and are buried at their birth place would not need to be identified.

You talk about paper work you have a computer do it all on line we looked at the program we went to the workshops leg bands for chickens were 1 buck one whole buck.

If I was showing birds and someone at the show had a out break on there farm and reported to Nais and then they inform me about the out break it would be worth it all if we could head off a huge out break by killing off a few bird at a few farms it would be worth it all.

 

[Betsy]

Way to go Tennessee!! Now if only Indiana would follow Tennessee's lead...
I did get to ask my U.S Congressman, Rep Mike Pence, about NAIS at open meeting Friday and he said he was interested in lessening its affects on the small farmer.

 

[MarkR]

NAIS is a federal program, bee registration differs from state to state. In Virginia you don't have to register hives at all if you don't want to. You can still have the state apiarist come if you wish, but it isn't required.

NAIS is designed to take the livestock business out of small hands by making it prohibitively expensive to registar and microchip animals (about $1000 per animal). Bee registration costs nothing. NAIS gives more power to huge agribusiness conglomerates and has very little to do with disease control. If and when we have a big outbreak, I guarentee you it will be in a big poultry house. NAIS does nothing to stop the spread of disease or look for ways of preventing it, just traces where it is. Bee registration allows for the free flow of information. Bee registration is for the beekeeper to get help from state apiarists and get the benefit of extension services. Apples and oranges if you ask me.

Mark

 

[keljonma]

lively Bee's

If I lose 1 hive (started as a bee package - estimate 25,000 bees). That is 1 report. I lose 25,000 chickens, that is one report per bird.

Yes, I have read the NAIS guidelines. I never sign anything without reading it first. I have proudly signed the NONAIS petition.

I didn't mention household pets. I mentioned livestock. Chickens are livestock, regardless of how their owners see them.

.....we looked at the program we went to the workshops leg bands for chickens were 1 buck one whole buck.

$1/per chicken is great if I have a small flock, but can add up if you have a small family farm and other animals besides poultry. This is what big poultry wants - to get the small chicken farmer out of the picture.

You talk about paper work you have a computer do it all on line.....

I hate to be the one to crush your bubble, but .... GET REAL! There are still many people today who operate small/family farms who DO NOT have computers! There are many farmers in my own local region who do not even have electricity.

MarkR has it right...

NAIS is designed to take the livestock business out of small hands by making it prohibitively expensive to registar and microchip animals (about $1000 per animal). Bee registration costs nothing. NAIS gives more power to huge agribusiness conglomerates and has very little to do with disease control. If and when we have a big outbreak, I guarentee you it will be in a big poultry house. NAIS does nothing to stop the spread of disease or look for ways of preventing it, just traces where it is. Bee registration allows for the free flow of information. Bee registration is for the beekeeper to get help from state apiarists and get the benefit of extension services. Apples and oranges if you ask me.

keljonma

if edited, probably for typos....​

 

[lively Bee's]

$1000 per animal??????????? not even close

"COST CONSIDERATIONS FOR IDENTIFICATION DEVICES
The cost of the AIN devices varies based on the type of identification device the producer chooses. Such costs are determined by the species being identified and the intended use of the device for herd management. For example, plastic eartags with a panel for writing or imprinting each animal’s herd management number may cost in the neighborhood of $1 each, while some of the button-like radio frequency eartags are between $2 and $3. Devices can come with a variety of services, and thus the person selecting the device will likely consider the options offered by each organization providing the animal identification number (AIN) device.
The administration of other devices, radio frequency injectable transponders for example, may typically be implanted by a veterinarian. In such cases, the cost of these identification devices may include the service charge for implanting the transponder in the proper implant site. Currently, such cost for implanting the transponder in horses is approximately $15 to $20 per horse and is also dependent on variation in travel cost of the veterinarian to the premises. Individuals with the expertise to implant the transponders themselves would only pay for the cost of the transponder."

Mark how does reg my bee allow me to have access to "free flow of information" How does it help me. I go to move a bee yard I have to call for a inspector and let hime tell me when he will be at that yard then Its $20 for him to drive out $5 per hive for him to check them that is $145 ok If I move them 2 or 3 time in a month for pollination then I have to call and have them inspected every time $435 for what??????? for him to look at 2 frames of brood and look at the ground for a fire ants nest and tell me ok you can load this one when we are done.

What benefit of extension services? maybe in the state you live in but not here.


Keljonma
If you have 25000 birds then you need a GIN number for that group or lot.

 

[MarkR]

In Virginia, extension services are by and large, at least for things I've needed them for, free of charge. I was blessed to have worked for them for about three years and know a lot of the agents. They are some of the kindest, most knowledgable people I know, who really have farmer's and gardener's interests at heart. And I don't need to let the state know if I move a hive. If I were selling bees, I would have the state apiarist do an inspection because I wouldn't expect anyone to buy any other way. I wouldn't.

You are most welcome here, the house next door is for sale as a matter of fact. Where are you, by the way?

NAIS - yes, ultimately, if the program is allowed to progress, registration and microchipping (leg tags and ear tags are not what they ultimatley want to use, you need to actually talk to some of the legislators to find out what they're thinking for the future) will, unless you're a subsidized entity (yes a lot of big companies are going to be subsidized), run very close to $1000 an animal.

It cost me almost $100 for my dog to be chipped by my vet. The tag the government is looking at ultimately using, will cost significantly more and is readable from a fair distance. I've talked with a couple of the folks the USDA has contracted with to develop them.

Plus, we're talking about the folks that came up with the $500 toilet seat, remember that? Almost nothing the government does is cheap or efficient. It's not that it actually costs that much but when large corporate farms are given a subsidized free ride, who do you think will pay the bill?

Anyway, I'm sure I need to stop, lest I start to sound paranoid. Believe me, I don't believe in ufo's, global conspiracies, or anything like that. I just want to grow my own food and have the government stay out of my business.

I grew up on a farm, and except for those few dark years when I lived in town, I've been doing it (on a small scale) my whole life. I know when my birds are sick, I know what to do it they are, I know how to isolate them if they are sick, I know how to cull the sick ones when I need to, I know how to dispose of the culled ones in safe ways. I'm doing my part to do things the right way and leave the world (at least my little part of it) a little better off than it was when I got here.

Let me add, I have no problem with the program as a voluntary system. My problem starts when I'm told I have to take these measures that will not have any effect on anything I'm doing, will not make me any more or less safe from avian flu than I already am, and send me a bill to cover the expenses. I don't raise chickens because I have to, or avoid chemical fertilizers and pesticides because I have to, or make my own wine (yep, we're also allowed to do this on a small scale here), or grow a garden because I have to. And I don't need to do these things in the careful, consciencious way I do. I don't need to make sure I'm doing everything safely and in a way that doesn't harm the environment or the people close to me. Lord knows, it's cheaper and easier to shop in the grocery store and be done with it all.

I do it all because I choose to, and because I think it's the right thing to do on so many levels. At the same time, I would neither require anyone else to live the way I do, nor would I expect them to pay taxes to support what I'm doing. But, I don't need someone in a federal office, who has never been to my place, and does not know my circumstances or where I'm coming from, tell me what I already know.

If I have offended anyone, I do apologize.

Mark

Edited for a couple spelling mistakes, I'm sure there are more. Sorry about that.

 

[hencackle]

If a person chooses to participate in an animal ID program...that's the key thing right here, IMO. Whenever the government steps in and says a particular program is mandatory, then a person has just lost the freedom to make a choice in the issue. That's why I'm anti-NAIS because I don't want to see freedoms chipped away piece by piece.
Stephanie

 

[lively Bee's]

Mark I am in Harriman Tn in Roane county. I farm for a side line income. Trust me I love my freedom just as much as the next person. But i also belive in a safe and health nation and that is some thing we do not have. This is why I can most of what I grow at least I konw were it came from and what was placed on it to make it go. Same way with my beef when I put it up I know what when and were it ate. I refuse to buy cattle from a sale you have no idea were it came from, former care, treatments, etc.

The systeam the local USDA agent showed us after the cows are chiped you can place a reader on or over a gate and it will log what cattle is on the farm etc If we load them on a trailer to sale I could use a hand held scanner and it would log the info and then at the sale they would scan then beef so it was logged at the sale and so on an so on. no huge paper trail.

Same way with my bird flock they never leave the farn so they do not need to be tagged no need so spend the money.

It is each person for his or her own when it come to a systeam like this it would be very help full for tracking case's of mad cow, or bird flu, etc

Take CCD if they were tracking the movement of all the bee hives in and out of states they might just might "I doubt it" could find a commen link with ccd and bee movement. Its is strange that some states have ccd and some states do not. Not the first reported case here in tennessee but we dont have huge migitory bee keepers that move in and out for pollination. just same timers like me with 25 - 50 hives that work the small demand for them here.

I feel it could be a usefiull program and the guide lines set are looking good so far. It is the NAIS program has got some bad press. It has a long way to go before I fell it will work like the USDA would like.

I also do not wont to offended anyone, but I dont like to see misleading information either. Every story has two sides the one you like and the one you dont.

I also apologize if any one got offended but we have to do some thing before we have a use outbreak here in the us it is only a matter of time.

Keith

 

[MarkR]

Hi Keith,

Yeah, VA doesn't have a big migratory bee industry, so I'm guessing it's at least partially why we don't have a mandatory registration right now.

I do agree that a tracking program might give us some needed information. But the migratory keepers were sharing the information all along. That's why we thought, for a long time, it was only the big migratory operations that were being affected. At least with beekeepers, I feel like there's a big sense of community and I see, at least here, a lot of voluntary sharing of information when the state asks for it. We share that sense of we're all in this together. Mostly because we are. If they had thought to ask sooner, they'd have gotten some better anwers earlier. It's been interesting to watch this CCD thing. Most of the mainstream news is filled with misinformation and panic. It's a waste of energy that would be better spent looking for answers. Much the same way it's treated avian flu.

You and I know that if or when the flu hits around here, it's going to come out of one of those disease factories/barns that Tyson or Wampler have all over the Shenandoah Valley. And if/when that happens, I'll be out in my coop doing my part to make sure it's contained, even if that means culling them all when that time comes.

The USDA agents I've talked to say that while animals that will never leave a property won't need to be chipped, they can't know that they won't leave and I'll eventually need to chip them all. Come on, I keep maybe a dozen birds at most. They don't free range, and if don't eat them, they die of old age and are disposed of here. But these guys are telling me that I'll have to do it anyway. That's part of the problem. Even with this legislation, you're getting one version of it, and I'm getting another.

Don't you think, though, we'd be better of if we could spend the money finding a better way to raise our food in healthy ways that don't reduce the nutritional value of our food, spread contaminants (like we see in all this pet food disaster), spread disease, or cause environmental damage? I think if the USDA was really interested in controlling the spread of a potentially diasterous epidemic, they'd address the people who are creating the environments that allow it to spread and reward the people that are doing their part to create environments that limit it.

I think we're probably mostly on the same page with a lot of things. I hope I haven't offended you. You have valid points but I guess we're just going to disagree on some stuff. It's just my two cents, and probably that's about what it's worth.

Mark

 

[Barnyard Dawg]

Congrats!! go to Tennessee.