What are your frugal and sustainable tips and tricks?

[BDutch]

so the roads are maintained by a tax on gasoline and diesel, have you heard of how the are going to collect money from evs

In my country they put taxes on electricity and the weight of a car too.

I do have a question for EV owners: If you need to recharge at a public station, how long does it take? How much does it cost?

Depends:
Slow charging (several hours) costs a bit less than gasoline if you count the miles/km you can drive. If you have a charging card or app from the owner/company it’s often cheaper.
There are many different prices and some charging cards or apps do not charge on all EV stations.

It has been a learning process at the start. But the apps and info get better al the time. And the number of charging stations increased a lot since 5 years ago.

Most public chargers do 22kW/hour. Meaning you can ride 100-140 km (less than 100miles) after charging one hour. But some only charge 11kW (like most home charging stations).

Quick charging takes 10 to 30 minutes , depending on the EV station and the car, and is more expensive. Located mainly beside highways.
New cars can charge 100kW/hour or even more. Old cars often max 50kW/hour. For safety reasons up to 80% of the battery capacity.

We have an older car (max 50kW). If we make longer trips we combine charging with a coffee break or a restaurant. Our car can drive approximately 400km with a charged battery.

 

[gtaus]

so the roads are maintained by a tax on gasoline and diesel, have you heard of how the are going to collect money from evs

It varies from state to state. But this summary will give you a good overview of extra fees accessed to EVs to help maintain the roads....

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Yes—many states are now charging EV owners through higher registration fees, mileage-based taxes, and proposed charging station surcharges to replace lost gas tax revenue.

Here’s how it’s unfolding:

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• Gas and diesel taxes fund most road maintenance—about 84% of federal and 29% of state highway budgets.
• EVs don’t use fuel, so they don’t pay into this system, creating a funding gap as EV adoption grows.

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1. Higher Registration Fees
   
   • Over 26 states now charge extra annual fees for EVs.
   • Example: Illinois raised EV registration to $248/year, $100 more than gas cars.
   • Some states like Georgia and Missouri charge flat fees that exceed what gas drivers pay in fuel taxes.
2. Mileage-Based Road Use Fees
   
   • States like Utah are experimenting with per-mile tracking systems to charge EVs based on actual road usage.
   • These systems may use onboard devices or odometer reporting.
3. Charging Station Taxes
   
   • Some proposals aim to tax electricity at public EV chargers, mimicking the gas tax model.
   • Problem: Most EV charging happens at home, so this captures only a fraction of usage.
4. Toll Increases
   
   • Some states are raising tolls across the board, making all drivers contribute, regardless of fuel type.

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​

• Critics argue that some EV fees are higher than what gas drivers pay, effectively penalizing clean vehicle adoption.
• EVs are heavier, which can cause more road wear—some states are factoring this into fee structures.

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EV owners in Minnesota pay added fees for highway maintenance through annual registration surcharges and, starting in 2027, a public charging tax.

Here’s how it works:

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• Annual EV surcharge: Previously a flat $75, now at least $150 starting January 2026, and often higher depending on the vehicle’s value and age.
• Fee formula: EV owners pay 0.5% of their vehicle’s MSRP, adjusted downward each year:
  • Year 1: 100% of MSRP
  • Year 2: 95%, Year 3: 90%, … down to 10% for vehicles 10+ years old
• Example: A 3-year-old Hyundai Ioniq ($42,600 MSRP) would incur a fee of $192/year.

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• Starting July 2027, Minnesota will impose a $0.05 per kWh tax on electricity used at public fast-charging stations.
• At that point, the annual surcharge minimum drops to $100, but most drivers will still pay more based on vehicle value.

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• EVs don’t pay gas taxes, which fund roads and bridges.
• Minnesota faces a $1 billion/year funding gap for transportation infrastructure.
• Legislators argue EVs are heavier and cause more road wear, justifying higher fees.

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In my state, we are used to paying higher registration fees on more valuable vehicles. Some young kid with an expensive sports car is going to pay a higher fee than I would with a 30-year-old truck running around the farm. I don't mind paying road maintenance fees at the pump. We all take advantage of good roads. I just hope they don't come up with a system to estimate "average" EV use in year and charge a fee on that estimate. No doubt, Dear Wife and I would be on the very low end with maybe less than 5,000 actual miles per year. Our state average is ~13,000 miles, almost 3X more than what we drive.

Dear Wife and I are heading into our retirement years. I don't expect we will be driving into town just for fun. Maybe they will take age of EV owner into consideration if they start to base EV fees on estimates. I would prefer EV taxes are based on actual road usage, mainly because it would benefit me, as opposed to higher registration fees based on average use estimates.

 

[gtaus]

I will consider EV when the batteries are not made with Cobalt.

Good news on that issue, too...

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Yes—some EVs currently use sodium-ion batteries, including the BYD Dolphin and upcoming budget models from Tesla and CATL. These batteries are emerging as a low-cost, sustainable alternative to lithium-ion.

Here’s a detailed look at what’s happening:

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️

• BYD Dolphin: Debuted in March 2024 with a sodium-ion battery offering ~250 miles of range.
• Tesla: Plans to use sodium-ion batteries in its upcoming $25,000 entry-level EV, targeting affordability and sustainability.
• CATL (Contemporary Amperex Technology Co. Ltd.): Released two sodium-ion battery models ready for mass production by late 2025, with energy densities up to 200 Wh/kg and performance down to -40°C.

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• Cost: Sodium costs ~$0.05/kg vs lithium’s ~$15/kg.
• Sustainability: No cobalt or nickel; less toxic mining footprint.
• Durability: Some models offer up to 20,000 charge cycles with 70% capacity retention.
• Rapid Charging: Can reach 80% in ~15 minutes, rivaling fast lithium-ion systems.

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• Lower energy densitythan lithium-ion, making them better suited for:
  • Budget EVs
  • Urban commuting
  • Fleet vehicles
• Heavier weight and lower range make them less ideal for long-distance or performance EVs—for now.

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We did not have any EV's from BYD at our EV show, but that is one question that I would have loved to talked to them about. Nobody is going to go to war over salt which is accessible to entire world. No need for toxic mining and toxic battery waste dumping at the end of life of the battery pack.

 

[saysfaa]

Good news on that issue, too...

*****************
Yes—some EVs currently use sodium-ion batteries, including the BYD Dolphin and upcoming budget models from Tesla and CATL. These batteries are emerging as a low-cost, sustainable alternative to lithium-ion.

Here’s a detailed look at what’s happening:

---

️

• BYD Dolphin: Debuted in March 2024 with a sodium-ion battery offering ~250 miles of range.
• Tesla: Plans to use sodium-ion batteries in its upcoming $25,000 entry-level EV, targeting affordability and sustainability.
• CATL (Contemporary Amperex Technology Co. Ltd.): Released two sodium-ion battery models ready for mass production by late 2025, with energy densities up to 200 Wh/kg and performance down to -40°C.

---

• Cost: Sodium costs ~$0.05/kg vs lithium’s ~$15/kg.
• Sustainability: No cobalt or nickel; less toxic mining footprint.
• Durability: Some models offer up to 20,000 charge cycles with 70% capacity retention.
• Rapid Charging: Can reach 80% in ~15 minutes, rivaling fast lithium-ion systems.

---

• Lower energy densitythan lithium-ion, making them better suited for:
  • Budget EVs
  • Urban commuting
  • Fleet vehicles
• Heavier weight and lower range make them less ideal for long-distance or performance EVs—for now.

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*****************
We did not have any EV's from BYD at our EV show, but that is one question that I would have loved to talked to them about. Nobody is going to go to war over salt which is accessible to entire world. No need for toxic mining and toxic battery waste dumping at the end of life of the battery pack.

I am ecstatic to hear this.

 

[gtaus]

I am ecstatic to hear this.

Since you are interested in battery technologies, here is something you might want to consider....

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Sodium-ion batteries are more tolerant of full charge-discharge cycles, while lithium-ion batteries degrade faster when routinely cycled from 0% to 100%. This difference stems from the underlying chemistry and structural stability of the electrodes.
Let’s break it down with a comparison table:

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Battery Technology Comparison: Cycle Life and Usable Energy​

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Key Takeaways​

• Sodium-ion batteries tolerate full depth-of-discharge without significant degradation, making them ideal for daily full cycles (e.g., fleet or rural use).
• LFP batteries are also robust and increasingly popular for long-life EVs.
• NMC lithium-ion batteries benefit from partial cycling (20–80%) to extend life.
• Solid-state batteries may revolutionize EV longevity, but they’re not yet widely available.

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I had a lot of fun talking to some of the people at the EV show about the different battery technologies and what we can look forward to in the near future. Everyone was excited to talk about the promise of sodium batteries that should be cheaper, longer lasting, and safer for the environment. They just need to find a way to pack in more energy density into the battery packs for the high performance EV's. However, for someone like me, my daily work commute is 20 miles so a sodium battery with 200 miles would last almost 2 full weeks. I could easily get by charging up a sodium battery once per week overnight.

I just hope the price of EV's continues to come down to the point where I can afford to make the jump next time I need a vehicle.

One guy at the EV show had a 10-year-old Tesla model X that he told me cost $150,000 back in the day. He then told me that same model is selling for around $40,000 today. I don't think I heard him correctly. Maybe he meant to say it's selling for $40,000 less today. Anyways, it was fun to look at and talk to the owner...

Well, it sure looks cool, but it's not a door configuration I would want for our snow country. He has had some gasket sealing issues around the back doors which lets water get into the car on the back seats. I think having melting snow on top of the car might pose some concerns. I got the feeling that he does not use those back doors in the winter if it's snowing outside.

We have to make adjustments for the cold and snow where I live. My cars have electric windows, but we never use them in the winter. You risk having melted, then frozen ice on the windows. When you hit that electric window switch, you risk burning out the motor if the window is ice locked. Likewise, I seldom lock the car doors in the winter because if it's really cold, you might not get back into the car. It's just a fact of life where I live.

Winters are very hard on our cars and that, I believe, has been a big factor holding back the adaptation of EV's where I live due to the reduced battery capacity in the winter. Lots of people were talking about sodium batteries performance in our winter months. You might enjoy this....

 

[sniper338]

Free ranging everyday lowers the feed bill.

 

[gtaus]

Free ranging everyday lowers the feed bill.

Yes. But if you need to confine your flock to the protection of a chicken run, you can bring the free range to them.

I cut my grass and dump all the grass clippings in the run. All my leaves get mowed up and dumped into the run. When I pull weeds from the gardens, they go into the run. Just about anything organic from kitchen scraps and leftovers gets tossed into the chicken run as well.

My chickens are outside all day scratching and pecking in the chicken run litter that is composting in place. They must be finding all kinds of juicy worms and tasty bugs to eat. My feed costs are about half of my winter feed bill. I think a good share of that reduction is the free food they find in the chicken run compost litter.

 

[fuzzi]

Well, I live out in the country, but our local town of 12,000 has a number of EV charging stations now. Infrasturcture is improving. The people I talked to at the EV car show charge their cars at home and don't rely on charging stations. Most of them have special rate grid power but one lady charges her EV from their rooftop solar panels.



I looked into the cost of charging EV's. For my situation, here is what I found...

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If you have to rely on charging stations, gas wins out every time in terms of speed...

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EV charging times vary widely depending on the charger type, and they’re almost always longer than a gas fill-up. Here's a clean comparison:

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Gas Fill-Up Time​

• Typical Duration: 3–5 minutes
• Range Added: ~300–400 miles
• Convenience: Ubiquitous stations, fast turnaround

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EV Charging Times by Charger Type​

Charger Type	Power Level	Time to Add ~200 Miles	Use Case
Level 1 (120V)	~1.4 kW	40–60 hours	Home trickle charging
Level 2 (240V)	~7–11 kW	6–10 hours	Home or workplace overnight
DC Fast Charging	~50–150 kW	30–60 minutes	Public stations, road trips
Ultra-Fast (Tesla Supercharger, etc.)	250–350 kW	15–25 minutes	High-speed corridors

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Key Takeaways​

• Gas wins on speed, hands down.
• EVs win on convenience—if you charge at home overnight, you rarely need public stations.
• Fast chargers are closing the gap, but they’re still less common and more expensive.

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In my case, we typically only put on about 20 miles per day. I think that would be perfect for overnight charging in our garage....

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At 240 volts (Level 2 charging), the time to add 20 miles depends on your EV’s efficiency and the charger’s power output. Let’s break it down:

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️ Typical Level 2 Charging Rate​

• Power: 7.2 kW (common for home Level 2 setups)
• EV efficiency: ~2.5 miles per kWh

Energy Needed for 20 Miles​

• 20 miles ÷ 2.5 mi/kWh = 8 kWh

Time to Add 8 kWh at 7.2 kW​

• 8 kWh ÷ 7.2 kW ≈ 1.1 hours, or ~65 minutes

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Quick Reference Table​

Charger Power	Time to Add 20 Miles
6.6 kW	~73 minutes
7.2 kW	~65 minutes
9.6 kW	~50 minutes
11.5 kW	~42 minutes

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Just for fun, here is what I could expect to save in gas costs if I had an EV charging overnight in my garage compared to our gas SUV...

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The guys at the EV show told me that using an EV as the commuter car for going to work and back (where we live) is an excellent use of an EV. But you are right to be concerned that driving across country may be a much bigger challenge finding charging stations along the way. Well, at least where I live out in vast stretches of farm land and small towns.

How is the electricity generated for charging EVs?

 

[Finchbreeder]

Fuzzi - that is my question. EV's are charged with electricity which is largely generated by gas fired power stations. So people are living in La La land. Particularly our Govt who are pushing this agenda.
Here in Australia it is common to travel 200/500kms to the nearest town/city so the length of charge is also a big consideration.
Particular problems with distance and heat in West Aust - because we are rather bigger than Texas, so a lot of big trucks that go long distances and can't (yet) be electric.
I am finding this discussion very interesting.
I so wish our fees for vehicle rego were nice and low like yours too.

 

[saysfaa]

How is the electricity generated for charging EVs?