What's wrong with their feathers?

[aveca]

Quote:
I think the point alice is trying to make is that she can find no reference book or article to verify that quote. I have sent the quote to Gary Ramey who has been breeding araucanas before most of us were born, and asked him if he could verify it in any of the literature he had or has read.

Thanks Jean. If anyone would have read of 'Prado and Latcham' I'd hope it would be Gary.

I feel like I'm insane for asking if anyone has read Prado/Latcham, or seen their names in any other place than the araucanabreeder.freeservers link. I want to apologize again to Aveca if I've offended them - I don't know why it keeps seeming like a battle every time I question the sources of their links. It's not a personal attack on anyone, and certainly not on Aveca who did not write the text on that web page. Shouldn't we always be looking for the most correct and true information though? Part of that search is questioning the source of the information we are reading.

SteveH - I promise, I wouldn't be offended by your ideas and theories - after all, all any of us has are theories at this point. I'd love to hear your thoughts. I'm far from an ultimate expert, I enjoy reading everything I can find, on all breeds of chickens. It will always be a learning process.

No offence taken..Its good to throw Ideas around. I did feel a little attcked thou.. I was not looking to be right, just a proposal..

This is the most interesting thing to come along .. I only had one question . what was the actual foundation bird ?.. no one seems to have an Idea..The origional bird is probably lost to time except for early descriptions by spaniards on thier travels. and a few scientists todays birds are a plethera of different bits and peices of the origional except for the decription of the string feathers..,some have muffs, some beards some both some have tails some are rumpless. all early descriptions agree they laid sky blue eggs. For all we know they are still running around in small flocks somewhere with the indigious people down there who dont use computers..

Since no one seemed to be able to tell for sure I started looking into the history... Most papers are in spanish with only a few translated.. too bad a lot of questions could be answered.

So time will tell. If someones gene pool accidently threw back to the founding birds I wouldnt be suprised , But I could be wrong. It just made sence.

If they did , its a huge thing...I dont think people really grasp that ...even if by accident to re-create a bird that only seems to live in descriptions... an example is someone right now in europe is trying with a fever to re-create the preswalskis horse.. they have the look but the genes are still not that close.. they have spent blood sweat and tears trying to get this right and millions of dollars trying to recreate this horse..They have traveled the 4 corners of the globe collecting the closest living representitives from mongolia to africa . They were important to the overall health to the eropean foreat habitiats . Through many DNA samples they still are not getting what theyb are after.. they pretty much came to the conclusion that the genes of the preswalskis is gone forever. thou the horses they created are an excewllent example of what they looked like.. They felt you never know...that gene could turn up in an unexpected place like some modern horse maybe a mustang herd...

It could also be a mutation no one is taking away from that Idea for sure... but it also could be an ancient gene.. If it is , litttle like the holy grail to ancient history buffs.

 

[aveca]

Alos I posted the book in its entirety the history of the pacific and the paper the blue egg chicken comes home to roost right in here , you can send them to gary.He might enjoy it.

..Ive alsready posted them about three times you just sign in and start reading the history of the blue egg chicken as seen by early exploreres in the history of the pacific. I didnt post the entire book just the blue egg chicken comes home to roost...I started it right on page one for you..

also if someone in here is really good with the spanish, they might translate some of the abstracts

 

[aveca]

Another interesting paper on history, the rumpless feathure may have made this breed harder to grab by predetors.

ARAUCANA HISTORY

Araucanas have a most interesting and controversial history, having originated in a remote area of Chile ruled by fierce Araucana Indians who resisted European domination until the 1880’s. The distinctive traits of blue egg, tufts and rumplessness originally were found in two distinct breeds from this region. The first breed, named “Collonocas”, laid blue eggs and was rumpless. The second breed, called “Quetros”, had unusual tufts, but was tailed and laid brown eggs.

Where did these unusual traits come from? The true answer is lost in the mists of time. However, there is circumstantial evidence that the blue egg color came from crosses of chickens with pheasants. While most hybrids are sterile, a small percentage is not. And the motive for crossing the two was the belief that the offspring made superior game fighting stock. The novelty of a blue egg meant that these rare fertile hens were used for breeding. The first written evidence of the existence of blue eggs in Chile was in 1883, and by 1914 they were commonly found throughout South and Central America.

The rumpless breed called Walle Kiki, or Persian Rumpless, was introduced by the Dutch during the colonial period and became widespread. The Araucana Indians preferred this trait since they believed that lack of tail feathers made it harder for predators to catch them. This trait quickly became common in their flocks.

The tufts gene is the most mysterious of all. Presumably there was a mutation in a gene that resulted in these ornamental tufts. Left to natural selection the trait would soon die out because of its negative affects on the developing embryo. The gene mutation is lethal if two copies are present, and the embryo dies in shell. Even one copy of the gene is associated with about 20% mortality. Therefore, the Araucana Indians must have decided that it was a desirable trait and consciously propagated it. Many of the original tufted birds had a distinctive “laughing crow”, although that is seldom heard in modern Araucanas. Perhaps there was some religious or ceremonial aspect involved in their maintenance.

The development of the modern Araucana breed begins with the great Chilean breeder, Dr. Ruben Bustros. As a young man in the Chilean army, he encountered the Araucana Indians in remote areas and observed their unique types of chickens during the 1880’s. He returned later and obtained some of the Quetros and Collonocas stock. Crossing these two breeds, over many years he developed tufted, rumpless birds that laid blue eggs, the first Araucanas. He was visited in 1914 by Professor Salvador Castello Carreras of Spain, who introduced them at the World Poultry Congress in 1918.

Attempts to import Araucana stock into the United States over the years met with great difficulties. The original Quetros and Collonocas breeds were especially hard to obtain because the Araucana Indians had been defeated and disbanded and their birds mixed with other breeds. Also, evidently Dr. Bustros’s flock was not maintained. However, a few breeders managed to get birds with the required traits of tufts, blue egg and rumplessness. But these birds were fairly pathetic mixes of a number of other breeds and much effort was required for improvement. However, there was no common goal among these few dedicated breeders until the 1960’s when Red Cox started an Araucana breeders group. His untimely death set things back, and it wasn’t until the late 1970’s that the Araucana was recognized as an official breed.

There is much more to this story, as well as controversy over the origins of the Quetros and Collonocas. Some believe that chickens were brought to the Americas before Columbus by Polynesian travelers. If you want to learn more of this fascinating history, 16 pages of details can be found in Cathy Brunson’s book “Araucanas Rings On Their Ears”.

 

[aveca]

Here is some more interesting reading about the history.

There is a strain of frizzled auracana kept by the locals called TRINTRE.
Almost every house keeps at least one of these as they are thought to ""Ward off the evil Genii""

Also here is the abstract and I hope I dont have to repeat it;
There is a breed of anciet time chickens from China that laid blue eggs called DONGXIANG. and they have discovered a distant genetic link full abstract here...
http://ps.fass.org/cgi/reprint/85/3/546.pdf

The local tribes called the blue eggs from heavan
the green eggs from earth.
http://www.aviculture-europe.nl/nummers/09E06A13.pdf

 

[Dipsy Doodle Doo]

Hi! Finally found a pic!
There was nothing "Silkie-ish" about this pullet (laid the blue egg in this pic ):

but she had the silkie feather gene.
I have no clue to her background, except she was one of the 'roosters added for warmth' in an Ideal order in '05. The other 'added for warmth' chicks all looked EE-ish (multi-colored, bearded, willow legs).

Not to imply that JuJu's silkie feathered Am's have anything in common with that bird --- just to say that you never know what genes might be hiding and waiting to pop out.

Lisa

 

[averytds]

I never knew this was such a hot topic. Apparently people the world over have been researching the vary same questions as aveca for a variety of reasons, also for a long time. Two main questions really that are apparently intersecting. What are the true origins of the Araucana? Which came first, Columbus or chickens?

There's a wealth of information out there. I did see other references to the David Caudill's book being a must read, although it appears rare. It was published by the International Collonca Society, Robles del Campo, California.

Things of interest possibly concerning Julie's babies.

While there is still ongoing debate, people are asserting South American chickens are of Asian descent and were here long before Europeans.

Many persons since then have devoted an enormous amount of time investigating the origin of these Pre-Colombian chickens and the blue egg gene. Their papers are available and are VERY interesting. They generally illustrate that many of the characteristics of these chickens are apparently of ASIAN (Trans-Pacific) origin.

From ABC History. http://www.ameraucana.org/history.html

This link I think had a fair summation with relevant links concerning the whole Chilean chickens are from Asia and why. Links to the DNA testing of Chinese blue-egg layers and Chilean blue-egg layers and a slew of others. http://www.aviculture-europe.nl/nummers/09E06A13.pdf

One of the links I found interesting went to feathersite.

The hackle itself is often hair-like and it is not unusual to produce birds with "cowlicks" in the hackles or slightly frizzled individuals.

Feathersite: Collonca http://www.feathersite.com/Poultry/CGP/Rapa/BRKRapanui.html

I found all sorts of references to naked neck, frizzled and feather legged blue egg layers in Chile that while apparently widely known about, people here would go crazy for. http://www.feathersite.com/Poultry/CGA/Chile/BRKChile.html

There are people all over the world using DNA testing, radio carbon dating and devoting full-time research to the origins of South American chickens. Wow.​

 

[aveca]

Your right you just never know what old genes might crop up.

The ancient chinese chicken with links to south american birds so maybe there is some truth to what they were tring to say.

The chiese favored this black skinned chicken to eat and it was distant relative to silki, if they traveled they took it with them for eggs and meat.

One scientist calls the auracana the origional phenoix rising up from the ashs of time

The natives of south america favored the flavor of the blue eggs and tests showed they had a bit more protein than the average.

There is a strain of frizzled auracana kept by the locals called TRINTRE.
Almost every house keeps at least one of these as they are thought to ""Ward off the evil Genii""

Also here is the abstract;
There is a breed of anciet time chickens from China that laid blue eggs called DONGXIANG. and they have discovered a distant genetic link full abstract here...
http://ps.fass.org/cgi/reprint/85/3/546.pdf

The local tribes called the blue eggs from heavan
the green eggs from earth.
http://www.aviculture-europe.nl/nummers/09E06A13.pdf

 

[Chicken Chaperone]

This is so fascinating to me- what a great thread! And I humbly suggest calling them something like Serendipity Splashes or Julie's Serendipity Splashes because they are most certainly
the most beautiful happy accidents/mutations/freaks/whatever I've seen!

and Steve's comment of "a really great walnut comb reminds me of the south end of a north bound monkey in estrus" slayed me!

Keep the great info comin' everybody!

 

[aveca]

recently in afghanastan a village was routed out and bombed,,Do you know what the refugees had with them?
crates of chickens and goats.. there is no tops market there so people that dont have all of the luxuries take thier things with them. Would have been the same on a voyage from asia to south america, they took the grocery store with them so to speak. they took thier chickens and exploited what they could find along the way.

Also in a post I put above it was thought at some point phesants were added..Is that possible? are the genes close enough to breed with chickens? Thought that was also an interesting thought. They beleived that is where the parsons nose on this breed came from. Just another thought , maybe a DNA could clear that part up.

 

[aveca]

Good Idea for a name , the girls could add trintre to the end of it. the frizzled version

Serendipity Splashes or Julie's Serendipity trintre , If they worked at it they could get consistant breeding true could be inducted into the standard

Julie's Serendipity trintre

Guess you cant tell Im all fired up about this bird. I just wanted to reach into the picure and touch one.

The phyeniox (sp)