where does the loathing come from?????

[andehens]

NYREDS

I had been thinking about how to say what you have just said so well!

my personal observation of things here in CA is that common sense and facts just don't get in the way of the absurdities of the clueless in the big cities.

 

[ravenfeathers]

Quote:
hey, speaking of intentionally inflammatory....

i think the real problem here is those who see livestock as something different to other creatures, personally. just because the "purpose" of an animal is to provide some goods to people from its body, doesn't mean it shouldn't be treated in accordance with acceptable humane treatment. that's not some city slicker talking, neither, because i live in the country, i've worked farms, i know about the bottom line. i also know that "farmer" does not equal "saint". i've worked on farms for gentleman so stingy, they wouldn't put a bullet into a dying, suffering animal because it was going to die anyway, why waste a bullet. there are plenty of large eggeries that have proved that you can provide decent, affordable eggs to the populace without keeping them in battery cages.

the call for a continuation of battery cages looks to this bird like willfully clinging to byzantine methods that don't work and aren't in the best interests of the stock or the consumer.

 

[TeaLady]

My thought as I did a quick read of the article was, "What a sad, sad man." Here's a guy completely missing out on the connection with the living things around him -- raised that way by parents who showed him nothing else, and he never figured it out in all the years since. My relationships with people are so enriched by my relationships with other living things, and I see him walled off from all of that.

Then I read NYRED's post about it maybe being reverse psychology and felt a little more hopeful. Either way, I do hope his editorial flushed out some good counter-arguments.

If I were in CA, I'd want to read the text of the proposition really carefully before voting. What exactly is being banned, etc.?
What would be the effects of the bill? Play out the scenarios in your head, maybe a role-playing session with a few friends. And share whatever you learn with the rest of your community.

 

[dacjohns]

Quote:
I've been reading The Omnivore's Dilemma by Michael Pollan. Organic isn't necessarily what we think it is. Organic is now big and commercial.

It sure busted my bubble.

 

[tvtaber]

So true, and in many ways local is better for you and the environment than organic. It is all a balance, and not an easy one. Same with cost versus humanely raised animals. I cannot afford free range meat every day so eat it once a week, for instance. There is lots of research that says alternate farming methods can be as productive as traditional, but it takes a lot of training and education to make this level of change. Personally, I think we are slowly moving in the right direction. Many laws have been passed that folks said would signal the end of the world, their livelyhood, etc. In some cases they were right but in others it has been very positive.

I cannot believe the public does not care about animal rights. Most people just have enough to worry about and cannot take on this issue, too. Look at the outrage caused by that cow video a few months ago...

 

[IcedMochaChick]

Quote:
Yes! I couldn't agree more.

 

[Chellester]

He could be the poster boy for the Good Ole Boy's Club.

 

[seminolewind]

The guy's a real jerk.

I think eggs etc. getting more expensive if this proposition passes is just too darn bad. For years, inhumane treatment of animals kept prices down, and still do. So do we continue that?

*edited for language*

 

[Cuban Longtails]

Quote:
"Organic" to me is something entirely different than what has been commercialized. I'm scientifically inclined, I'm not going to call something organic that isn't. Water isn't organic, it's not a living thing. Eggs aren't really organic either. Potato, pah-tah-toe

Be as "natural" as you can, that's all anyone is really able to anyways.

 

[susancoyotesfan]

The problem is that conventional farming *IS* just as expensive as organic...it's just that you don't see the true cost at the grocery store, you see it every April when you pay taxes. Farmers get subsidies for producing, which come from our taxes.

The reason organic (well the old way organic, not the new industrial organic) costs more is because those farmers don't qualify for, or choose not to avail themselves of those subsidies. They pass their costs to you, and you see them upfront.

I wish there was a way to pick and choose where my taxes were going to be spent, at least in part -- I would NEVER choose industrial, conventional agriculture as a spending place. I grew up in part on a farm, and my aunts/uncles had one until the day they died; my family treated their livestock in the old way -- if you meet their minimum needs and a little more, they will reward you with productive lives/products for many years. We had milk, eggs, manure, crops, and more. They didn't have a clue about 'organic' but that's how they - and we - managed our farms/gardens for the most part.

I was going to say that it didn't make a living but that's not true, our families raised dairy cattle and sold the milk to the local dairy. Cattle grazed in pasture during the summer, and ate grains/hay in the barns in the winter.