Who’s baby daddy! And baby? Mottled rooster with blue Cochins!?

[Ashleyboz]

Ok my world changed changed today with playing with my breeds. I thought I had a mottled Cochin bantam. But from a mix up at the hatchery I either got a Green Queen rooster OR a cookies and cream! HELP!

Now the babies are turning out a lot of blues and from what I see mottling. I know it probably will fade when they get older but honestly will it? They are a month and a half and can definitely tell in the lighter blues. The hens and roosters are first timers for breeding. Does this mean he’s dominant mottling? This should probably be posted in chicken questions for dummies

5 toes, yellow feet, yellow combs

The last pics are of tonight.

 

[NatJ]

Now the babies are turning out a lot of blues and from what I see mottling. I know it probably will fade when they get older but honestly will it? They are a month and a half and can definitely tell in the lighter blues. The hens and roosters are first timers for breeding. Does this mean he’s dominant mottling?

Mottling is recessive, not dominant. The rooster does not have a dominant gene for mottling.

It is common for black chickens to have occasional white feathers or white feather tips when they are young, especially in the big feathers of the wings. Chickens that are black diluted by some other gene (like blue or chocolate) are also prone to having white feathers like that when they are young.

The mottling gene causes white tips on the feathers. Sometimes that means tiny dots, sometimes more like half the feather or even more. In general, mottled chickens show more white each time they molt (so the older they are, the more white they show.)

One oddity: for chickens that inherit mottling from just one parent, they will sometimes show white tips on their feathers when they are young chicks, and then not when they grow up. So that might be part of what is causing white bits on your chicks. (This confused some of the people researching mottling in the past: one guy thought it was dominant because he could see it in chicks who had just one copy of the gene, while another guy considered it recessive because he raised the test birds all the way to maturity and could not see mottling in adult chickens that had just one copy of the mottling gene. They eventually figured it out, and someone wrote a nice complicated scholarly paper about how it really worked.)

Edit to add: if any of the hens have the mottling gene, then you might have some chicks that inherited mottling from both parents. That would make them actually mottled, and they would be expected to show mottling throughout their lives. I do not know how likely that is in your flock (hens that carry mottling.)

 

[2ndTink]

I'm no help on genetics, but those are some beautiful chicks, I love the blue color

 

[Ashleyboz]

Ok my world changed changed today with playing with my breeds. I thought I had a mottled Cochin bantam. But from a mix up at the hatchery I either got a Green Queen rooster OR a cookies and cream! HELP!

Now the babies are turning out a lot of blues and from what I see mottling. I know it probably will fade when they get older but honestly will it? They are a month and a half and can definitely tell in the lighter blues. The hens and roosters are first timers for breeding. Does this mean he’s dominant mottling? This should probably be posted in chicken questions for dummies

5 toes, yellow feet, yellow combs

The last pics are of tonight.

Mottling is recessive, not dominant. The rooster does not have a dominant gene for mottling.

It is common for black chickens to have occasional white feathers or white feather tips when they are young, especially in the big feathers of the wings. Chickens that are black diluted by some other gene (like blue or chocolate) are also prone to having white feathers like that when they are young.

The mottling gene causes white tips on the feathers. Sometimes that means tiny dots, sometimes more like half the feather or even more. In general, mottled chickens show more white each time they molt (so the older they are, the more white they show.)

One oddity: for chickens that inherit mottling from just one parent, they will sometimes show white tips on their feathers when they are young chicks, and then not when they grow up. So that might be part of what is causing white bits on your chicks. (This confused some of the people researching mottling in the past: one guy thought it was dominant because he could see it in chicks who had just one copy of the gene, while another guy considered it recessive because he raised the test birds all the way to maturity and could not see mottling in adult chickens that had just one copy of the mottling gene. They eventually figured it out, and someone wrote a nice complicated scholarly paper about how it really worked.)

Edit to add: if any of the hens have the mottling gene, then you might have some chicks that inherited mottling from both parents. That would make them actually mottled, and they would be expected to show mottling throughout their lives. I do not know how likely that is in your flock (hens that carry mottling.)

I love your information and answers! Trying so hard to figure this chicken breeding and colors thing out I have a few Isa Browns, Barred Rocks, Smokey Pearls, white Cochins, and a bunch of blue standard Cochins. I’m assuming these are from my blue Cochins. I’ve assumed here before and was way off though!

 

[Ashleyboz]

I'm no help on genetics, but those are some beautiful chicks, I love the blue color

Aren’t they neat? It’s so much fun watching them change color. We’ve had a few curveballs with our rooster we ordered from a hatchery so it seems like they other week I’m on here asking a few probably simple questions

 

[NatJ]

Trying so hard to figure this chicken breeding and colors thing out I have a few Isa Browns, Barred Rocks, Smokey Pearls, white Cochins, and a bunch of blue standard Cochins. I’m assuming these are from my blue Cochins. I’ve assumed here before and was way off though!

Do you know which color eggs the chicks hatched from, and what hens probably laid those eggs?

For the rooster you have, blue chicks would have to come from a blue or splash mother, so your Blue Cochins are definitely the most likely mothers. So that would be the most logical assumption.

If we are looking for other possibilities: white can hide blue or splash, so it would be possible to have a chicken that looks right for a Smoky Pearl or a White Cochin or even an ISA Brown but could also be genetically blue or splash.

If you have hatched chicks from the other hens before, and if you got a bunch of chicks with black but no blue, then probably none of them have blue. Like you, I'm trying to be careful about assuming anything, given the surprise with your rooster

 

[Ashleyboz]

Do you know which color eggs the chicks hatched from, and what hens probably laid those eggs?

For the rooster you have, blue chicks would have to come from a blue or splash mother, so your Blue Cochins are definitely the most likely mothers. So that would be the most logical assumption.

If we are looking for other possibilities: white can hide blue or splash, so it would be possible to have a chicken that looks right for a Smoky Pearl or a White Cochin or even an ISA Brown but could also be genetically blue or splash.

If you have hatched chicks from the other hens before, and if you got a bunch of chicks with black but no blue, then probably none of them have blue. Like you, I'm trying to be careful about assuming anything, given the surprise with your rooster

I believe feom what I researched the Isa Brown could hatching picture #1 with the brown/red and the ones with little bits of hidden black. I gave some white chicks that are almost a paint with dark eyes and legs and then some with yellow legs and a lighter face. The paint I’m assuming the Smokey Pearls.

I do have some white Cochins, blue and splash, barred rocks, Isa Browns , and black Australorps.
I have a smorgasbord of confusion and assumptions going on is what I have!

 

[NatJ]

I have a smorgasbord of confusion and assumptions going on is what I have!

I definitely agree with that!

I believe feom what I researched the Isa Brown could...

Just to check: the ISA Browns are mostly brown (or red/gold color), with a white tail and some bits of white in other areas, right?

(If I am wrong about that, then what I am about to say will be wrong too.)

I believe feom what I researched the Isa Brown could hatching picture #1 with the brown/red and the ones with little bits of hidden black. I gave some white chicks that are almost a paint with dark eyes and legs and then some with yellow legs and a lighter face. The paint I’m assuming the Smokey Pearls.

Paints could probably come from Smoky Pearls or from ISA Browns.

Paint should be a genetically black chicken, with the Dominant White gene turning the black to white (but missing some bits, which is why they are paint rather than actual white.)

Smoky Pearl and ISA Brown should each have Dominant White (one copy of Dominant White, one copy of the normal gene that allows black to show.) This would mean half their chicks inherit Dominant White, and the other half do not.

The rooster should give genes to make all-black chicks (possibly with some leakage, but I'll ignore that for a minute.)

So your rooster, with either Smoky Pearl or ISA Brown hens, should give about 50% black chicks and about 50% paint chicks.

Leakage: you are more likely to see leakage of red/brown/gold on chicks from the ISA Brown hens, and less likely to see that kind of leakage on chicks from the Smoky Pearl hens. There will probably not be enough difference to be positive which is the mother, just a general likelihood.

Other traits: Chicks from ISA Brown or Smoky Pearl should have the same comb types, amount of leg feathering, leg color(s), crest or lack of it, muff/beard or lack of it, and so forth. When they grow up all the way, there may be differences in body shape and earlobe color, but they may not be enough different to be obvious.

So unless you can be sure of which eggs you are setting, I don't know of any good way to distinguish which chicks come from which of those two breeds.

I gave some white chicks that are almost a paint with dark eyes and legs and then some with yellow legs and a lighter face.

Those might be male/female differences, based on the rooster having dark skin and either of the possible mother breeds having light skin.

I believe feom what I researched the Isa Brown could hatching picture #1 with the brown/red

Males are more likely to have leakage like that on their wings and back, and females are less likely to. Yes, I do think that one is more likely to have and ISA Brown mother rather than a Smoky Pearl mother, but I can't be positive.

 

[rural mouse]

Mottling: a mottled parent with a not mottled parent usually produces all black babies. They're "split to mottled" meaning they have mottling HIDDEN under the black. As adults, they can pop the occasional white feather in random places, but it's very inconsistent. A 2nd generation cross of the splits with each other will produce (odds on each baby) 75% black babies, 25% mottled. Of the black, 1/3 is pure black, the 2/3 is also split.

I had a mottled houdan hen and my only roo at the time was a gold penciled hamburg

Papa

Mama

Offspring: hatched 2. They got papa's body build, comb, and earlobes, mama's crest and 5 toes. Neither got the beard or muffs. They both popped a couple of random white feathers.

Genetics are weird.

 

[Ashleyboz]

Mottling: a mottled parent with a not mottled parent usually produces all black babies. They're "split to mottled" meaning they have mottling HIDDEN under the black. As adults, they can pop the occasional white feather in random places, but it's very inconsistent. A 2nd generation cross of the splits with each other will produce (odds on each baby) 75% black babies, 25% mottled. Of the black, 1/3 is pure black, the 2/3 is also split.

I had a mottled houdan hen and my only roo at the time was a gold penciled hamburg


View attachment 3695100Papa

View attachment 3695101Mama

View attachment 3695102Offspring: hatched 2. They got papa's body build, comb, and earlobes, mama's crest and 5 toes. Neither got the beard or muffs. They both popped a couple of random white feathers.

Genetics are weird.

That mama is about the coolest. And they are definitely weird! But I find it fun and fascinating because the colors are so dang pretty and when breeding you can do some neat stuff. I just need to get this color stuff down. Didn’t know when I put our first eggs in the incubator it would be this complex!