Would this breeding plan work?

[Gigachad poultry]

so I've already made a thread a few months back asking about breeding and making a new breed that breeds true. Well now I'm ready to start! first of all I'm planning on taking IBC totes and making a bunch of super strong plastic breeding pens and small runs attached.
Something kinda like this, but with a run:

Now my plan for breeding is i will use my rooster Darcy the mixed rooster that i really like for the breeding. I'm going to make two or three for the next generations, and i will have Darcy in his own bigger coop with his own F1 hens. I plan on keeping three hens in these plastic coops, and once the F2 hens start laying i will hatch the next batch and i will sell the F2 hens once i have the F3 hens. I will continue this process till I hit F4 and then i will add new genetics. I'm thinking copper marans so they will get golden lacing along with their straw lacing. For the extra roosters i will make some meat pens and they will be raised for meat. This is a larger sized bird so they will be perfect for that.

Now for my question:

1) Will they breed true if I add a new breed at F4?
2) I'm pretty sure i only need to breed Darcy, and inbreeding is okay until generation 4 right?

 

[phasianidae]

Getting a population to breed true will require a high level of inbreeding. Inbreeding is a useful tool, not something to avoid. You can inbreed indefinitely as long as you hatch enough birds each generation. Low hatchability will probably be the only issue you run into after quite a few generations of very close inbreeding. If it becomes a problem you can start keeping track of which hens eggs hatch well and which don't, and only keep the offspring from the hens with high hatchability.

 

[Bubblewrap]

Well I don't know much about chicken genetics though I would dearly love to obtain a nice book on the subject. I do have some parakeets and finches and have learned a little of their genetics. In order to get something to breed true it must be homogenized to certain genes. For instance if you decided your breed would be white and used the dominate white genes you would need to identify and remove birds that where split to other colours so that each bird had a white gene on both sides of its chromosone. Once that was finished at f4 if you bred in a non with bird or even a white bird that had a split even if the resultant offspring where all white you would have them be split in that generation and you would have to begin the removal of those genes again. Of course you would be working with more genes and likely type so things would not be so simple.

As to inbreeding how tight you can inbreed and how okay it is entirely depends on the individuals from which a line was started. It could be that in generation 1 you began to see serious recessive traits arise or it could happen never as perhaps you have individuals with none. If your founders do have bad genes you would likely see them in the second generation of your line breeding. I have found info on inbreeding depression a little harder to find but it seems there are low heritable traits linked to immune responce and fertility and they apear as a lack of overall vigour. I believe those affects might appear in a few generations however chickens seem more resiliant to inbreeding then some species.

 

[Gigachad poultry]

Getting a population to breed true will require a high level of inbreeding. Inbreeding is a useful tool, not something to avoid. You can inbreed indefinitely as long as you hatch enough birds each generation. Low hatchability will probably be the only issue you run into after quite a few generations of very close inbreeding. If it becomes a problem you can start keeping track of which hens eggs hatch well and which don't, and only keep the offspring from the hens with high hatchability.

Ok! I will be sure to mark eggs laid by specific hens before the hatch. I might do the same larger setup for the hens like I will the rooster.

 

[Gigachad poultry]

Well I don't know much about chicken genetics though I would dearly love to obtain a nice book on the subject. I do have some parakeets and finches and have learned a little of their genetics. In order to get something to breed true it must be homogenized to certain genes. For instance if you decided your breed would be white and used the dominate white genes you would need to identify and remove birds that where split to other colours so that each bird had a white gene on both sides of its chromosone. Once that was finished at f4 if you bred in a non with bird or even a white bird that had a split even if the resultant offspring where all white you would have them be split in that generation and you would have to begin the removal of those genes again. Of course you would be working with more genes and likely type so things would not be so simple.

As to inbreeding how tight you can inbreed and how okay it is entirely depends on the individuals from which a line was started. It could be that in generation 1 you began to see serious recessive traits arise or it could happen never as perhaps you have individuals with none. If your founders do have bad genes you would likely see them in the second generation of your line breeding. I have found info on inbreeding depression a little harder to find but it seems there are low heritable traits linked to immune responce and fertility and they apear as a lack of overall vigour. I believe those affects might appear in a few generations however chickens seem more resiliant to inbreeding then some species.

Ok, thank you very much! I do have a plan to use only the birds I like, have the best features, lay constantly. I'm also wondering how hard it would be to have white females and black mdles so they are feather sexing is possible. Would I just need to use and females with the white gene and breed them with a dark gene? After enough generations I'd think that would create a feather sexed breed. I don't plan on doing that but it was just a thought that had passed my mind. I know it would be hard to introduce some other very broody breeds like hens that are Black Orpington mixed with Black Copper Maran. I'm planning on trying to get them to lay copper or dark pink eggs, a broody, and very powerful and large breed and I'm thinking that what I need to do. I did use one book for information, I can give you a photo if you want?

 

[Bubblewrap]

I am not sure how one achieves and auto sexing breed. I assume it requires a sex linked gene. However while I know how to cross a sex linked bird to a normal and thus tell that generations young apart. As far as I know although a hen can only carry 1 or 0 copies of a sex linked gene she will always appear as if she had two copies if she is visual. While a male bird could appear as if he had 0, 1 or, 2 copies

the problem is that if you got a situation where all the hens had the maximum copy of the gene 1 and the roosters had the maximum amount of the gene 2 copies they should look alike so the sex linked young should no longer work. So unless a person was to keep two lines and cross them otherwise I do not know how to achieve sex linked young. I do know it is possible for instance the texas pioneer pigeon is auto sexing with them breeding true with dimorphic sexes.

In order to get a white female and a black male their would have to be some inherent quality of being female that the white ness was tied to and some male quality the black ness was teid too. If the genes are just colour modifying genes you should get black and white birds who are of random genders. Even if by chance you got all the black genes on the z chromosone and all the white genes on the w chromosone unless the genes are sex linked a proccess called crossover is possible where during reproduction the gene moves to the other side of the chromosone undoing the work. However once we get to linkage and crossover my understanding of this stuff goes out the window.

Sure if you want to tell me the name of the book I'll look it up sometime. For broody birds I would think your best bet is to buy a breed that is being mantained by a breeder who mantains broodiness instead of a hatchery line of a bird that is historicaly supposed to be broody because in hatcheries that trait is not bred for at all and may have been lost in the particular line.

 

[Gigachad poultry]

Here is my favorite book on poultry and chickens!

 

[JacinLarkwell]

As soon as you introduce new traits, the birds will likely stop breeding true for whether is different between the two breeds

 

[NatJ]

I'm also wondering how hard it would be to have white females and black males so they are feather sexing is possible.

Having a breed where females are always white and males are always black is genetically impossible in chickens, at least with any of the genes that are currently known to exist.

I am not sure how one achieves and auto sexing breed. I assume it requires a sex linked gene... As far as I know although a hen can only carry 1 or 0 copies of a sex linked gene she will always appear as if she had two copies if she is visual. While a male bird could appear as if he had 0, 1 or, 2 copies

the problem is that if you got a situation where all the hens had the maximum copy of the gene 1 and the roosters had the maximum amount of the gene 2 copies they should look alike so the sex linked young should no longer work.

What you say is true for some of the sex-linked genes but not for all of them. The barring gene works a little differently, and is used for autosexing chicken breeds.

One copy of the barring gene makes white bars across the feathers, and often a light spot on the head of the chick when it hatches. Two copies of the barring gene make more white on the feathers, a bigger light spot on the head of the chick when it hatches, and sometimes lighter down all over the chick.

So with true-breeding barred chickens (like Barred Rocks or Cream Legbars), you can tell their sex by color, because hens have 1 copy of the barring gene (some visible effect) and roosters have 2 copies of the barring gene (stronger visible effect).

 

[Chikyboy]

Here is my favorite book on poultry and chickens!
View attachment 3619027

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