Advice for breeding BBS (Blue Black Splash) genetics! 🐣

[3KillerBs]

I *might* have another of those extra-dark blues in the youngest batch (8-9 weeks). I can't be sure until closer to maturity.

 

[hannahsocal]

I *might* have another of those extra-dark blues in the youngest batch (8-9 weeks). I can't be sure until closer to maturity.

View attachment 3240359

Usually, the BBS blacks have a purple/bluish sheen and the BBS blues do not. NON-BBS blacks usually have a greenish sheen.

 

[3KillerBs]

Usually, the BBS blacks have a purple/bluish sheen and the BBS blues do not. NON-BBS blacks usually have a greenish sheen.

My understanding was that there is no difference whatsoever between a black bred from 2 blues and a black bred from 2 blacks.

Blue is the heterozygous and Splash is the homozygous form.

What is the genetic mechanism that would create different sheens?

(I think purple is prettier, but green is the standard).

 

[hannahsocal]

My understanding was that there is no difference whatsoever between a black bred from 2 blues and a black bred from 2 blacks.

Blue is the heterozygous and Splash is the homozygous form.

What is the genetic mechanism that would create different sheens?

(I think purple is prettier, but green is the standard).

I’m not sure what the genetic difference would be, but from what I’ve seen and been told, the BBS blacks are “lighter.” More of a dark dark dark grey. And the regular blacks are more of a bold deep dark black. Not sure what causes the sheen differences genetically, that’s just what I’ve learned over the years and it has normally held true. If I were to guess, it would be because the “dark dark dark grey” that appears black to the eye still has that BBS gene somewhere in it, so the blue hue is still somewhat present and that iridescence creates a purple sheen when light hits it, because blue and purple are close to each other on the colour spectrum.

 

[3KillerBs]

If I were to guess, it would be because the “dark dark dark grey” that appears black to the eye still has that BBS gene somewhere in it,

I'm afraid that such a bird wouldn't *be* a black though.

It can either have the BI gene or not have it.

I did some more searching on the details of the genetics: https://amerpoultryassn.com/2021/10/breeding-poultry-with-the-blue-gene/

There is more to it than just the BI gene though:

"In its heterozygous form (one copy of the Bl gene, known as Bl/bl+), black feathers are diluted to create blue plumage. In its homozygous form (two copies of the Bl gene, known as Bl/Bl), black feathers are diluted to create splash plumage. The genotype for the wild type (the non-mutated version which is black) is bl+/bl+.

The American Poultry Association standard of perfection calls for the plumage of a blue bird to be laced. While there are a few conflicting studies out there, multiple scientific studies have found that there are three genes involved in creating the black single lacing on blue birds. Those three genes are the Pattern gene (Pg), Melanotic gene (MI) and Columbian gene (Co)."

 

[hannahsocal]

I’m not sure what the genetic difference would be, but from what I’ve seen and been told, the BBS blacks are “lighter.” More of a dark dark dark grey. And the regular blacks are more of a bold deep dark black. Not sure what causes the sheen differences genetically, that’s just what I’ve learned over the years and it has normally held true.

In these photos you can see what I’m talking about. The first 2 photos are of “pure black” chickens and have a majority green sheen, and the last photo is of a BBS black chicken with a majority purple sheen. The 3rd photo, however, is of an ayam cemani (blackest of black) and appears to have BOTH purple and green sheens. I’m not sure how the genetics are working here, but it definitely presents some interesting possibilities for research.

 

[hannahsocal]

I'm afraid that such a bird wouldn't *be* a black though.

It can either have the BI gene or not have it.

I did some more searching on the details of the genetics: https://amerpoultryassn.com/2021/10/breeding-poultry-with-the-blue-gene/

There is more to it than just the BI gene though:

"In its heterozygous form (one copy of the Bl gene, known as Bl/bl+), black feathers are diluted to create blue plumage. In its homozygous form (two copies of the Bl gene, known as Bl/Bl), black feathers are diluted to create splash plumage. The genotype for the wild type (the non-mutated version which is black) is bl+/bl+.

The American Poultry Association standard of perfection calls for the plumage of a blue bird to be laced. While there are a few conflicting studies out there, multiple scientific studies have found that there are three genes involved in creating the black single lacing on blue birds. Those three genes are the Pattern gene (Pg), Melanotic gene (MI) and Columbian gene (Co)."

Exactly ^^. It’s not as simple as dominant recessive. There are other alleles playing into this.

 

[3KillerBs]

In these photos you can see what I’m talking about. The first 2 photos are of “pure black” chickens and have a majority green sheen, and the last photo is of a BBS black chicken with a majority purple sheen. The 3rd photo, however, is of an ayam cemani (blackest of black) and appears to have BOTH purple and green sheens. I’m not sure how the genetics are working here, but it definitely presents some interesting possibilities for research.

Very interesting.

But that 4th photo, according to my understanding, can't be blue because he isn't laced.

???

 

[3KillerBs]

I'm confused.

 

[pipdzipdnreadytogo]

Iridescence color in blacks is either the result of different melanizing genes that can cause the chicken to be black, or because of a nutritional imbalance when the feathers are growing from my understanding, nothing to do with the blue gene. Nutritional issues lead to 'banding' in the sheen, while genetics cause a more even sheen from what I've read. I've seen black birds with purple sheen called 'over-melanized'. I do not know what the genetic components are there; my assumption has been that those with both purple and green sheen are somewhere between appropriate melanizing and being 'over-melanized'.

I know that it's not definitive proof, but I have plenty of Blacks bred out of Blues that have beetle green sheen just like my Blacks out of Blacks. It's really hard to capture in pictures because my birds are silkied, but you can kinda see the green sheen around the edge of this hen's face in this picture. She's a Black out of a Blue x Black crossing if I remember correctly, but might have been from a Blue x Blue breeding. I have several more silkied Black Cochins that have green sheen and none of them have shown purple sheen, regardless of whether they're from Black x Black, Blue x Blue, or Blue x Black crossings.

I also have Chocolates who have no connection whatsoever to Blues in their background and they have both green and purple sheen. This is the best picture I have that sort of shows it:

I've never seen anything claiming purple sheen is related to Blue breedings in all my reading.