Advice for breeding BBS (Blue Black Splash) genetics! 🐣

[3KillerBs]

Iridescence color in blacks is either the result of different melanizing genes that can cause the chicken to be black, or because of a nutritional imbalance when the feathers are growing from my understanding, nothing to do with the blue gene. Nutritional issues lead to 'banding' in the sheen, while genetics cause a more even sheen from what I've read. I've seen black birds with purple sheen called 'over-melanized'. I do not know what the genetic components are there; my assumption has been that those with both purple and green sheen are somewhere between appropriate melanizing and being 'over-melanized'.

I know that it's not definitive proof, but I have plenty of Blacks bred out of Blues that have beetle green sheen just like my Blacks out of Blacks. It's really hard to capture in pictures because my birds are silkied, but you can kinda see the green sheen around the edge of this hen's face in this picture. She's a Black out of a Blue x Black crossing if I remember correctly, but might have been from a Blue x Blue breeding. I have several more silkied Black Cochins that have green sheen and none of them have shown purple sheen, regardless of whether they're from Black x Black, Blue x Blue, or Blue x Black crossings.

View attachment 3240491

I also have Chocolates who have no connection whatsoever to Blues in their background and they have both green and purple sheen. This is the best picture I have that sort of shows it:

View attachment 3240496

I've never seen anything claiming purple sheen is related to Blue breedings in all my reading.

Remarkable how hard it is to actually photograph the sheen, isn't it?

I wonder if the "over-melanized" thing is related to the extra genes that put the lacing on blues?

 

[pipdzipdnreadytogo]

That would certainly bridge the gap between these two phenomena. I'd never seen anyone make that connection before now. Wouldn't Blacks already have those melanizers since it's suggested to cross in Black to Blues to maintain good lacing, though? I think my head is starting to spin at this point.

 

[3KillerBs]

Wouldn't Blacks already have those melanizers since it's suggested to cross in Black to Blues to maintain good lacing, though? I think my head is starting to spin at this point.

Well, IIRC, at least in Australorps the purple sheen is considered a flaw and green sheen is desired.

Maybe breeders of blue are selecting for the melanizers and breeders of blacks are selecting away from them?

Personally, I'm *really* hoping to hatch a couple splash males for my flock. There's a person on the Picture of the Week thread who is determined that my Charcoal isn't an Australorp with the gypsy-face flaw but not an Australorp at all because of her coloring.

IMO, my very dark blues are cool-looking, but this is the most attractive color to me.

 

[pipdzipdnreadytogo]

Yes, apparently purple sheen is only acceptable in like one breed, was it Red Junglefowl? But it's considered a defect in pretty much any other breed. You could be right on breeding for it in Blues and against it in Blacks. I'll have to keep an eye on my Blacks as generations go on. I'd intended to breed my silkied Cochins rotationally, with Black males out of my Blue group moving over to the Black group as part of that rotation, so it'll be interesting to see what happens there. It may never end up being an issue because you can't see the lacing on their silkied feathering anyway.

It really feels like it's so much simpler with the silkied birds. Don't have to worry about lacing, you can barely see the sheen on them anyway, and all I've really had to worry about as far as feathering goes is making my Blues actually consistently look Blue. I wonder if it would be worthwhile to cross in smooth birds every now and then to check on some of these other traits.

I agree with you on Blue shades, I do much prefer medium Blues like that in smooth feathering. My favorites are the ones with heavy lacing like proper, show-quality Andalusians, though. I actually only prefer the lighter Blues in silkied feathering, but that's primarily because anything very much darker than them just ends up looking Black.

 

[hannahsocal]

Very interesting.

But that 4th photo, according to my understanding, can't be blue because he isn't laced.

???

All of these are BLACK, not blue. I am just describing the different varieties of black out there. Obviously black cannot be laced.

 

[hannahsocal]

Iridescence color in blacks is either the result of different melanizing genes that can cause the chicken to be black, or because of a nutritional imbalance when the feathers are growing from my understanding, nothing to do with the blue gene. Nutritional issues lead to 'banding' in the sheen, while genetics cause a more even sheen from what I've read. I've seen black birds with purple sheen called 'over-melanized'. I do not know what the genetic components are there; my assumption has been that those with both purple and green sheen are somewhere between appropriate melanizing and being 'over-melanized'.

I know that it's not definitive proof, but I have plenty of Blacks bred out of Blues that have beetle green sheen just like my Blacks out of Blacks. It's really hard to capture in pictures because my birds are silkied, but you can kinda see the green sheen around the edge of this hen's face in this picture. She's a Black out of a Blue x Black crossing if I remember correctly, but might have been from a Blue x Blue breeding. I have several more silkied Black Cochins that have green sheen and none of them have shown purple sheen, regardless of whether they're from Black x Black, Blue x Blue, or Blue x Black crossings.

View attachment 3240491

I also have Chocolates who have no connection whatsoever to Blues in their background and they have both green and purple sheen. This is the best picture I have that sort of shows it:

View attachment 3240496

I've never seen anything claiming purple sheen is related to Blue breedings in all my reading.

Interesting thank you for your anecdotes! I suppose the person I spoke with about the sheen colouring was mistaken then. It would be really interesting to find out if sheen does play a role in it at all!

 

[hannahsocal]

That would certainly bridge the gap between these two phenomena. I'd never seen anyone make that connection before now. Wouldn't Blacks already have those melanizers since it's suggested to cross in Black to Blues to maintain good lacing, though? I think my head is starting to spin at this point.

Maybe that “crossing” is what can cause a bird to have BOTH green and bluish/purplish sheen? I’m just spitballing ideas out here

 

[Iluveggers]

So I’ve read through this thread, and found it so interesting!

We might add a separate trio BBS Wyandotte flock to the farm to sell some hatching eggs and straight run chicks next year. I’m thinking it would be best to get a Blue Roo, and Blue & Splash Hens if we want mostly blue w a couple splash & black offspring? Does this seem correct?

If I have a Black roo and Splash and Blue hens, there would be no chance of Splash offspring?


Final question, if we added Ameraucanas for egg color variety along with the Wyandottes would the Wyandotte red lacing stay or disappear? I would guess the offspring eggs would be an off-color of green…would love a trio of BBS Ameraucanas too eventually.

Thank you for all the help!

 

[pipdzipdnreadytogo]

So I’ve read through this thread, and found it so interesting!

We might add a separate trio BBS Wyandotte flock to the farm to sell some hatching eggs and straight run chicks next year. I’m thinking it would be best to get a Blue Roo, and Blue & Splash Hens if we want mostly blue w a couple splash & black offspring? Does this seem correct?

Blue x Blue gives you 25% Black, 50% Blue, 25% Splash offspring.
Blue x Splash gives you equal numbers of Blue and Splash in the offspring.

So the combination would be roughly 50% Blues, 37.5% Splashes, 12.5% Blacks in the offspring, if I've done my math correctly. In simpler to visualize terms, that's 4/8 Blue, 3/8 Splash, 1/8 Black. Editing, that's assuming equal numbers of Blue and Splash hens in the parent group, of course!

If I have a Black roo and Splash and Blue hens, there would be no chance of Splash offspring?

Correct. If either parent is Black, it's impossible to get Splash offspring from them. Black has no blue genes and Splash requires that both parents pass on a blue gene to create it.

Final question, if we added Ameraucanas for egg color variety along with the Wyandottes would the Wyandotte red lacing stay or disappear? I would guess the offspring eggs would be an off-color of green…would love a trio of BBS Ameraucanas too eventually.

Thank you for all the help!

BBS Ameraucanas are genetically solid black (with either zero, one, or two copies of the blue gene), which is dominant over patterns, so what you should expect from crossing them to your Wyandottes is mostly Black, Blue, or Splash offspring with varying amounts of gold or reddish color leakage. You should see messy lacing come back if you cross those offspring back to Wyandottes, though.

The egg color from that mix should be greenish, yes.

 

[Iluveggers]

Blue x Blue gives you 25% Black, 50% Blue, 25% Splash offspring.
Blue x Splash gives you equal numbers of Blue and Splash in the offspring.

So the combination would be roughly 50% Blues, 37.5% Splashes, 12.5% Blacks in the offspring, if I've done my math correctly. In simpler to visualize terms, that's 4/8 Blue, 3/8 Splash, 1/8 Black.




Correct. If either parent is Black, it's impossible to get Splash offspring from them. Black has no blue genes and Splash requires that both parents pass on a blue gene to create it.




BBS Ameraucanas are genetically solid black (with either zero, one, or two copies of the blue gene), which is dominant over patterns, so what you should expect from crossing them to your Wyandottes is mostly Black, Blue, or Splash offspring with varying amounts of gold or reddish color leakage. You should see messy lacing come back if you cross those offspring back to Wyandottes, though.

The egg color from that mix should be greenish, yes.

Thank you! That was extremely helpful! Would like majority blue but still chances for black or splash, so that would work great!