Am I on the right path?

[Eggcentric One]

They say 'keeping chickens is easy'...
...and it is, once you learn and implement the myriad of details that makes it 'easy'.

HAHA. I am beginning to think it will take me longer to become quasi knowledgeable about chickens than it did to attain both my masters degrees.

 

[CindyinSD]

Eggcentric, you’ve got some wonderful plans. I’m not going to read this whole thread right now although I likely will later. I’ve learned so much since I got my first chickens last fall. I now have the original 15 plus another 30+ chickens, turkeys, geese & ducks. That’s not counting the 25 meaties in the freezer or the 30 more in the brooder. And three Scottish Highland heifers. Chickens are a gateway drug. We have 12 acres, decent grass, no growing season unless you can live on lettuce and pine trees. So if I want to grow food it’s gonna be animal protein.

I don’t think you need to start out with such a fancy set-up. If you have the means to make it happen out of the gate, then by all means start vetting contractors. If this is a DIY project and you’re not a professional builder, (or even if it’s not) then why not get started while you’re doing the preliminary work on your dream coop?

All you need is a tractor like this:

And some Premier One “Shock or Not” netting for chicks. (Fine netting on bottom, but it’ll work equally well for adult birds). If you have high predator pressure, you’ll also want a solar energizer to charge the netting and a string trimmer to trim under it to keep grass from wicking off power to the ground. (It contains its own integral ground.)

We do have aerial predators but the birds of all ages can and do run for the tractor at the slightest hint of movement from on high.

You’ll probably want some accommodations like these if you have much land at all anyway, and if not they can always serve for isolation or grow-out coops. You can even cover them with flexible clear or white panels and use them to start your tomatoes before it gets warm. In the edge seasons I tarp the ends if it’s too cold, rainy or snowy.

Alternatively you could fix up a prefab tool shed for your preliminary flock and later use it as a tool shed, feed storage, etc.

I know the yard looks kind of tight, but the shed was already there and we had a serious blizzard coming on. I had just realized that the coop they were in wasn’t gonna cut it if they had to stay inside for days on end. There’s a lot more yard behind and to the right. It’s just constrained at the front door. See what I mean about learning by doing? If I’d known better I’d never have built the first coop that way. I’d have done it tall enough for me to enter comfortably and big enough for the birds to spend the winter cooped up in happily if necessary.

The reason I’m suggesting this is that it’s a way to get started almost immediately. You learn so much in the process of actually caring for and raising poultry that honestly can not be learned in any other way. You have to do it, and while books and mentors are absolutely wonderful and superbly helpful, there is NOTHING that you can buy or read or listen to or even visit and tour that will teach you as much or as well as actually doing and living it.

You’ll find things you hadn’t thought of, that would be so helpful if only you had built them in to begin with, and other things you think you’re really gonna want that are completely unnecessary and superfluous in your situation.

Start out with some wonderful breeding stock from one of your desired breeds—not run-of-the-mill hatchery chicks (like mine lol), but the high dollar ones, or obtain stock from local breeders dedicated to excellence. That way you’ll be building on your ultimate goal and also discovering more about the breed (and chickens in general) while you’re working on those dream facilities.

 

[CindyinSD]

Oh yes... I forgot to mention: you can get the plans for these Suskovich tractors on Amazon. “Stress Free Chicken Tractors” by John Suskovich. I have three, two of which I modified to include nesting boxes.

 

[Cryss]

I bring the Reality to the Romance. Many don't appreciate that, or my delivery style(bluntly abrasive) ....but thanks.

Ain't it the truth!

 

[feathermaid]

I plan to use pine straw as it is abundant in over 50 acres of the property. I have read this is suitable, is that correct?

Yes. And if you ever come across regular leaves and wood chips, those are great to add in too.

I really have thought through the ventilation extensively. Having it without creating drafts and breezes, mitigating heat retention, providing ample fresh air, etc... Do you really think I need more?

Well, I'm from the camp that believes you can never have too much ventilation. The only time you'd want to eliminate direct drafts is probably in freezing temps, or as a shield from hurricanes. Chickens will appreciate a cool breeze, or any air flow through the coop on hot days and especially warm nights... my windows are open all spring, summer and fall when the weather is down to the 30-40s. Like I said, if you face the coop in the right direction according to weather patterns, you can have an entire wall open all year. Here's the original book for the open air "woods coop" and a couple byc examples
http://gnipsel.com/files/chickens/mfaph.pdf
https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/woods-style-house-in-the-winter.445004/
https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/my-positive-local-action-coop.72804/

but if the hens will allow me, I would really like to visit and socialize the little hen chicks. I don't know how much of that desire is reality or wishful thinking.. haha

I haven't had the opportunity to let a broody raise chicks, I've only heard broody moms can be pretty protective, just depends on her personality whether she lets you handle them much. If you're worried about using an incubator or raising the chicks yourself, there are many nice folks here who can help you through the process. I personally do NOT like heat lamps for chicks, so I use a heating pad and it's very easy and safe. A commercial chick-heating-plate would probably be even easier. And the chicks would be able to bond with you much quicker.

I know breeding will be an undertaking, but I do want to give it a go as I am getting chickens for both eggs and meat and I don't want to have to introduce new purchases and possible disease regularly. My household typically consumes 6 chickens per month, min, and a dozen eggs every three days. This doesn't include the, more than occasional, long term company.
... but I would like to keep the original breed replenished for their temperament, egg production, likelihood to be setters and viable meats production.

Have you read the meat bird section to understand the difference between dual purpose and other meaties like Red Rangers compared to what you're used to eating from the stores... likely Cornish Cross? There's quite a difference in texture and taste and especially size. CX might not be what you wanted, but they're big and ready to process by about 7-10 weeks. Dual purpose breeds will take a couple more months to grow to a good process weight, which is still much smaller. Then there's the feed-to-meat/egg ratio to think about during the grow-out time.
Even with pure breeds, there are still many temperament and behavior variations, they may not all turn out like the description says. Some of the best layers and meat birds are actually hybrid crosses.

If a hen goes broody can't I just give her eggs,

Well, you want to make sure she's a dedicated broody so she doesn't get fickle and abandon the nest halfway through incubation. And the eggs all need to be the same age, or at least same stage. You can collect the eggs you want to hatch, hold them aside, then when you know you've got a good broody, place those eggs under her. Most people mark the eggs just in case other hens lay more in that box you know which ones to remove. A staggered hatch is rarely successful as once the first chicks have hatched, the mama will abandon the remaining eggs. She may even push out an egg she knows isn't viable before hatch.

I will have an ample run at almost a quarter acre, but on good weather days, most, I will be opening the gates and allowing them access to a 3 acre backyard and 15 acres of paddocks/pasture.

Chickens will usually return on their own in the evening... if they don't happen to find a spot they like better in the trees lol! If the weather gets bad and they're out, they might find someplace else to take shelter. Mine always come to my covered patio instead of their own coop. So teaching them to come to you is a good idea for when you need it. But if they happen to range a couple acres out, it might be difficult getting them to come back before dusk. Keep in mind almost everyone loses birds to predation at some point while free ranging.

Also, do you think placing my compost pile in a 2 foot deep 12 foot by 12 foot bin in the run is a good idea? I am thinking they will enjoy picking through it.

Many people compost with chickens, they definitely do enjoy it! You just have to be careful what you put in it. I have my compost in the chicken yard and my first year I put all our kitchen/dinner scraps in there, my birds loved it so much! But after about a year, a hen turned up very lethargic and I couldn't find an illness figure out how to help her. She died, and I did my own amateur necropsy and found an inch layer of visceral fat with probable organ failure. All those carbs (bread, pasta etc) did her in, she was the one who ate veggies last. Now I only use the compost bin for old bedding and scooped droppings, lawn clippings and weeds, and occasional fruit and veggie scraps. There are lots of worms and bugs living in there, so my chickens still really enjoy scratching through it. I make sure never to put anything that will draw unwanted critters, but rats always manage to find a way to invade. I set an alarm to go out and close up the feeders early.

In the covered run area, should I make that floor concrete to allow them to scratch and file their own nails? Something I thought about since reading here. HA

I wouldn't. My birds like to dig holes for dust bathing and I would hate to deny them that joy. I do have some 12" square concrete pavers in the runs that seem to be enough, and they file their beaks as well. I move them occasionally to reveal more bugs and goodies underneath.

A run space of 90x150 is a very good size. You wouldn't even necessarily have to free range. There's lots of ways to add enrichment in a contained area. More links to read!!
Keeping Chickens Without Free Ranging
Key Points to Successful Free Ranging

 

[feathermaid]

Anyway, I posted all these plans now so I could make any required changes before costly mistakes or being unable to, knowing I would have to make some adjustments for the same reason I had an architect review my house plans. haha. I far from know it all.

@CindyinSD makes a really good point here:

You learn so much in the process of actually caring for and raising poultry that honestly can not be learned in any other way. You have to do it, and while books and mentors are absolutely wonderful and superbly helpful, there is NOTHING that you can buy or read or listen to or even visit and tour that will teach you as much or as well as actually doing and living it.

Eggcentric, what's wrong with starting small? Even with just one breed for the first year so you can experiment with breeding, get to know life with roosters and broodies, all without the added complication of separating individuals for so many weeks.

Here's an entertaining thread to look through
What were your mistakes when you first started?

I am the queen of leaving links!!
But please do read them... valuable info there

 

[aart]

@CindyinSD makes a really good point here:

Ditto Dat!!!^^^

 

[CindyinSD]

Well Good Morning Flappy!

Yes, aart does have much invaluable information to offer and is very attentive and patient with me and other newbies, as I have noted.

I am making some changes to the coop design based on the suggestions of the some of you guys. Smaller nest boxes, smaller pop doors, smoked panels instead of clear in the covered run and I have asked if I should keep the epoxy floor or bare concrete and am awaiting thoughts..... And I plan to use pine straw as it is abundant in over 50 acres of the property. I have read this is suitable, is that correct?

I really have thought through the ventilation extensively. Having it without creating drafts and breezes, mitigating heat retention, providing ample fresh air, etc.. I honestly believe that between the raised ridge roof vent along the entire length of the roof, constant hot air out and creating a draw of fresh air in from the cooltubes, will take care of constant fresh air without draft issues. In addition to that I have 4 operational windows on the south side ( above the nest boxes ) that will be 4 foot wide by 3 foot high with hardware cloth secured to them, the sliding glass door screen will also have a latch and hardware cloth custom built screen, giving them an additional 30" x 80" screened opening, another 2 foot x 2 foot operational window opposite the 3 pop doors. Do you really think I need more?

Great idea on saving space on the brooder location, but if the hens will allow me, I would really like to visit and socialize the little hen chicks. I don't know how much of that desire is reality or wishful thinking.. haha

I know breeding will be an undertaking, but I do want to give it a go as I am getting chickens for both eggs and meat and I don't want to have to introduce new purchases and possible disease regularly. My household typically consumes 6 chickens per month, min, and a dozen eggs every three days. This doesn't include the, more than occasional, long term company. For instance, we had 5 guest for a year during a deployment rotation, 10 for 3 months for an overlapping deployment rotation and currently have 3 staying in the guest/ garage apartment that have been there for going on 6 months. So additional mouths to feed are a regular. I don't mind having mixed breed chickens for meat and the temporary eggs, but I would like to keep the original breed replenished for their temperament, egg production, likelihood to be setters and viable meats production.

If a hen goes broody can't I just give her eggs, instead of taking them for breakfast and baked goods and let her do her thing? That was my plan. Also, can't I take a few breed specific hens and a rooster and separate them into the attached pen and run and let nature takes it course? I am thinking that if it goes well great, I will be replenishing the breed in my flock, if not then I will try again another time, possibly with different hens. Is this not a viable method? I know that nothing is guaranteed, even with the most diligent of efforts.

I will have an ample run at almost a quarter acre, but on good weather days, most, I will be opening the gates and allowing them access to a 3 acre backyard and 15 acres of paddocks/pasture. I do not want them "cooped up" more than absolutely necessary. The trick will be training them to come back to the coop when called so they aren't out when the weather turns bad on a dime. Or will they do that naturally, since they will know that is home and their safe place?

Also, do you think placing my compost pile in a 2 foot deep 12 foot by 12 foot bin in the run is a good idea? I am thinking they will enjoy picking through it.

In the covered run area, should I make that floor concrete to allow them to scratch and file their own nails? Something I thought about since reading here. HA

Yes, I have also changed my poop board plan, haha. I will place thin panels that most of the time I can just scrape/scoop into a my bucket and thoroughly clean periodically.

I will be keeping the nest box numbers, as you never know what may happen that will require an increased flock and for uh.... chicken math. haha. It doesn't hurt to have more than you need does it?

Anyway, I posted all these plans now so I could make any required changes before costly mistakes or being unable to, knowing I would have to make some adjustments for the same reason I had an architect review my house plans. haha. I far from know it all.

You all have been wonderful in suggestions and chicken education and I sincerely appreciate it. I look forward to your input and suggestions. Thanks!!!

I’ve been reading through this thread... I’ll offer a few comments before I forget (I’m old... ) First, if you want to do true deep litter that composts in-coop, you’ll need a dirt floor. I achieve the actual composting action in only one place: in my cow barn with dirt floor, and I’ve tried diligently in both floored coops. Added starters, the whole thing. Deep bedding does help manage the manure and smell, but it won’t compost in place unless your floor is dirt.

No, don’t pave your run and yes, do provide shade there. You can provide alternating (rotational) runs if you like, accessible from differing coop exits, so the grass isn’t ruined by perpetual chicken occupation. Then you could also isolate a breed and provide them with their own private run when you want them to reproduce according to their kind.

The other thing... If you’re set on using broodies, get some broody-breed hens... silkies, game breeds, bantam varieties. They can incubate your eggs for you. It *is* fun using an incubator, though. The broodies will need their own areas, not in the general population. A broody house would ideally provide each broody with her own little living space. Once the chicks are hatched and mama is ready, they can go to the general broody area, supplied with a run, to raise the chicks and recover from the physical demands of incubating eggs.

 

[Cryss]

Ain't it the truth!

@aart it's been exactly what I needed more often than not. Thanks.

 

[Eggcentric One]

Eggcentric, you’ve got some wonderful plans. I’m not going to read this whole thread right now although I likely will later. I’ve learned so much since I got my first chickens last fall. I now have the original 15 plus another 30+ chickens, turkeys, geese & ducks. That’s not counting the 25 meaties in the freezer or the 30 more in the brooder. And three Scottish Highland heifers. Chickens are a gateway drug. We have 12 acres, decent grass, no growing season unless you can live on lettuce and pine trees. So if I want to grow food it’s gonna be animal protein.

I don’t think you need to start out with such a fancy set-up. If you have the means to make it happen out of the gate, then by all means start vetting contractors. If this is a DIY project and you’re not a professional builder, (or even if it’s not) then why not get started while you’re doing the preliminary work on your dream coop?

All you need is a tractor like this:

View attachment 1825729

And some Premier One “Shock or Not” netting for chicks. (Fine netting on bottom, but it’ll work equally well for adult birds). If you have high predator pressure, you’ll also want a solar energizer to charge the netting and a string trimmer to trim under it to keep grass from wicking off power to the ground. (It contains its own integral ground.)

View attachment 1825745

We do have aerial predators but the birds of all ages can and do run for the tractor at the slightest hint of movement from on high.

You’ll probably want some accommodations like these if you have much land at all anyway, and if not they can always serve for isolation or grow-out coops. You can even cover them with flexible clear or white panels and use them to start your tomatoes before it gets warm. In the edge seasons I tarp the ends if it’s too cold, rainy or snowy.

Alternatively you could fix up a prefab tool shed for your preliminary flock and later use it as a tool shed, feed storage, etc.

View attachment 1825763

View attachment 1825764

View attachment 1825765

I know the yard looks kind of tight, but the shed was already there and we had a serious blizzard coming on. I had just realized that the coop they were in wasn’t gonna cut it if they had to stay inside for days on end. There’s a lot more yard behind and to the right. It’s just constrained at the front door. See what I mean about learning by doing? If I’d known better I’d never have built the first coop that way. I’d have done it tall enough for me to enter comfortably and big enough for the birds to spend the winter cooped up in happily if necessary.

The reason I’m suggesting this is that it’s a way to get started almost immediately. You learn so much in the process of actually caring for and raising poultry that honestly can not be learned in any other way. You have to do it, and while books and mentors are absolutely wonderful and superbly helpful, there is NOTHING that you can buy or read or listen to or even visit and tour that will teach you as much or as well as actually doing and living it.

You’ll find things you hadn’t thought of, that would be so helpful if only you had built them in to begin with, and other things you think you’re really gonna want that are completely unnecessary and superfluous in your situation.

Start out with some wonderful breeding stock from one of your desired breeds—not run-of-the-mill hatchery chicks (like mine lol), but the high dollar ones, or obtain stock from local breeders dedicated to excellence. That way you’ll be building on your ultimate goal and also discovering more about the breed (and chickens in general) while you’re working on those dream facilities.[/QUOTE


Thank you for taking the time to assist me.
You have a lovely flock. One can look and see how unhappy there are.. hahaha (joking)

My acreage has just recently been secured and it is my intention to build my coop (s) and run as my contractors build my home. Thus, getting them at this stage isn't feasible, since I am not on property daily yet. But we plan to begin the building within the next month and to locate the coop about 400 feet off the back patio, giving them ample backyard and the paddocks to free range in.
I know, to some it may appear that I am wasting time, since I will not be able to get any birds for at least 6 months, but I don't feel I am. Whatever is built will be in my backyard and a permanent structure that I will have to live with for the remainder of my days, as will my flock.
I could easily get them and put them in temporary or mobile coops, sooner and without much effort, but my concern there is the awful storms and hurricanes we get ( even if only the edge it can get over 100 mph winds, falling trees and flying debris) that destroy anything not secured to the ground and structurally sound, thus the coops and most of the chickens. My plans may seem excessive, but livestock or not, it would break my heart to not be able to offer them the most safety I can.
I wish I could start acquiring immediately, but since I can't, I figure it would be a good idea to learn as much as I can and have my intentions evaluated by people who actually know what they are doing, as I clearly do not... haha